AOL Crossovers come back to camp with the Pack

[SouthernTierScouter]

Crossing over in January? Those AoL scouts miss out on the Blue and Gold, (typically in Feb-March for most Packs). Are those Scouts of appropriate age? They haven't completed 5th grade yet, so are they 10 earning AoL or are they 11 by that point?

 

Typically we have found our crossing over in March gives the Cubs plenty of time to join the Troop on camp outs before Summer camp in July/August. Not to mention they have already camped with a troop to earn AoL Required Adventure, and our Pack does about 8 camp outs a year as it is, so its no culture shock to our Cubs. 

[Col. Flagg]

Crossing over in January? Those AoL scouts miss out on the Blue and Gold, (typically in Feb-March for most Packs). Are those Scouts of appropriate age? They haven't completed 5th grade yet, so are they 10 earning AoL or are they 11 by that point?

 

Typically we have found our crossing over in March gives the Cubs plenty of time to join the Troop on camp outs before Summer camp in July/August. Not to mention they have already camped with a troop to earn AoL Required Adventure, and our Pack does about 8 camp outs a year as it is, so its no culture shock to our Cubs. 

 

In my areas Scouts crossover anywhere between January and March. They still go back for B&G. Since the new requirements for AOL we've seen many Webelos not crossing over until Feb-March, some in April. It just seems to be taking them longer than in the past to complete requirements and cross over.

[Eagle94-A1]

Crossing over in January? Those AoL scouts miss out on the Blue and Gold, (typically in Feb-March for most Packs). Are those Scouts of appropriate age? They haven't completed 5th grade yet, so are they 10 earning AoL or are they 11 by that point?

 

Typically we have found our crossing over in March gives the Cubs plenty of time to join the Troop on camp outs before Summer camp in July/August. Not to mention they have already camped with a troop to earn AoL Required Adventure, and our Pack does about 8 camp outs a year as it is, so its no culture shock to our Cubs. 

 

 

We are a traditional pack in that B&G is just a party and not a big extravagant advancement ceremony where everyone gets their awards. So they are not really missing out there. Current AOL requirements state:

 

      1. Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade                                                                    

                or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old. (Being active means having good

                attendance, paying your den dues, and working on den projects.) [emphasis added]

 

So December 1st is the earliest a den can cross over if they met all the other requirements. As active as the pack is, that is not a problem. The one den that decided to wait until March and Webeloree did so because the DL wanted all the Scouts to be the last group to earn all 20 of the old Activity Badges.

 

Regarding the OUTDOORSMAN Adventure Badge (formerly known as CAMPER Adventure Badge, camping is not required to earn that anymore. You have the option of camping, or doing an outdoor activity.  Same option applies for Scouting Adventure: troop campout or other outdoor activity. DL signed off because they did either Scouting for Food or Memorial Day service projects with us.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Eagle94-A1

[Eagle94-A1]

In my areas Scouts crossover anywhere between January and March. They still go back for B&G. Since the new requirements for AOL we've seen many Webelos not crossing over until Feb-March, some in April. It just seems to be taking them longer than in the past to complete requirements and cross over.

 

Some packs are still trying to get all the awards done by B&G. That idea, B&G being the big advancement night, really didn't come about until the 1990s and Cub Scout program  expanding from 3 Years to 4 or 5 years ( sorry do not remember when Tiger Cubs were officially integrated into packs) When Cub Scouts dropped from 3rd grade to 2nd, and Webelos went from a 1 year program to an 18-24 month program, all the hoopla started with B&G and advancement.

 

What is interesting is that there was enough complaint about June 2015 Cub Scout requirements taking so long to complete, that national in December 2016 changed the requirements for all the adventures and some of the ranks, Didn't really affect Middle son's den as they only one or two items to do to finish. But the DL from other pack we got Scouts from decided to use the new, simpler requirements for those Webelos who would not be earning the AOL either in time for Webeloree, or at all.

[SouthernTierScouter]

I like the shorter requirements, it allows us more time to do things without worrying about checking items off the list. We can focus on things the boys like, and skip some that just doesn't work for us. It also helps us to hit our advancement goal of the B&G in the middle of March. I just couldn't see crossing over in January, regardless of advancement, those scouts are still fairly young. A few extra months being the top dogs around the pack can help build that confidence before they join the troop where they are the little kids again. Sure its only a few months, but a few months at that age seems to mean a lot.

 

Luckily we all have some leeway with things to make what is best for us work for us (within the bounds of the rules). 

[Col. Flagg]

I just couldn't see crossing over in January, regardless of advancement, those scouts are still fairly young. A few extra months being the top dogs around the pack can help build that confidence before they join the troop where they are the little kids again.

 

Recruiting in my area is done like a fraternity rush. Many troops have used this method for years and aggressively pursued Webelos during the fall. Many times troops will close off recruiting and stop accepting Scouts as early as December. Because my area is so (needlessly) competitive, families buy in to this crappola and sign up early. The irony is that if the troop does not manage the application submission correctly (e.g., hold off submitting applications until the Scout has been awarded AOL) they can actually screw up the kid's advancement.

 

We take a different approach. We don't set a limit of how many Scouts we will take. We recruit year around, so that we aren't just showing up and asking for Scouts every October. We offer to help with the Cub program, help at meetings and Den Chiefs. This approach has lead to a steady stream of 15-20 new Scouts every year.

 

I agree, March is the perfect time to cross. No one wants a brand new Boy Scout going on a January or February camp out where they may not be properly prepared.

[SouthernTierScouter]

Troops actually stop accepting new scouts?

 

That's so anathema to me, why would you not take more boys if more boys wanted to join? I could see if you some how get simply too incredibly large  to manage (suppose you could just split into 2 troops). 

 

Yeah sending a Cub on his first troop campout in January doesn't seem like a good idea. Our Pack does plenty of camping, and even a winter one, (in cabin), but for my tastes that late March works just perfectly.

[Col. Flagg]

Troops actually stop accepting new scouts?

 

That's so anathema to me, why would you not take more boys if more boys wanted to join? I could see if you some how get simply too incredibly large  to manage (suppose you could just split into 2 troops). 

 

Yeah sending a Cub on his first troop campout in January doesn't seem like a good idea. Our Pack does plenty of camping, and even a winter one, (in cabin), but for my tastes that late March works just perfectly.

 

Most of the troops in my area average 75 Scouts. Several are 100+. When the stop accepting Scouts it's because they've already taken 20. But that whole "join before we close down recruiting"' approach is back-firing on them now. Parents are realizing that the "hard sell" is stressful and unnecessary.

 

The key to recruiting is knowing each year how many Scouts you can take. If you know how many Scouts you will lose to aging out and attrition you can identify how many you need to recruit.

[SouthernTierScouter]

75 to 100 Scouts is insane. We sport around 24-30 in my area.

 

To quote Baden Powell in his book Aids to Scoutmastership, our founder...

 

"ONE REASON WHY A TROOP SHOULD NOT EXCEED 32

 

The number in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty-two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many as I could deal with-in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two.

 

Men talk of having fine Troops of 60 or even 100-and their leaders tell me that their boys are equally well trained as in smaller Troops. I express admiration (“admiration†literally translated means “surpriseâ€), and I don’t believe them.

 

“Why worry about individual training?†they ask. Because it is the only way by which you can educate. You can instruct any number of boys, a thousand at a time if you have a loud voice and attractive methods of disciplinary means. But that is not training-it is not education.

 

Education is the thing that counts in building character and In making men.

 

The incentive to perfect himself, when properly instilled into the individual, brings about his active effort on the line most suitable to his temperament and powers.

 

It is not the slightest use to preach the Scout Law or to give it out as orders to a crowd of boys: each mind requires its special exposition of them and the ambition to carry them out.

 

That is where the personality and ability of the Scoutmaster come in."

[Col. Flagg]

 

75 to 100 Scouts is insane. We sport around 24-30 in my area.

 

Agreed. There are a few units with 120+.

 

You should see them leave on a Friday night for monthly camping. It looks like a small Company of mini Marines heading out...complete with the (adult) Major(s) leading them. No way a 15 year old SPL could manage a unit that large even with 10-12 PLs.

 

We've always been between 60-70. While I'd like fewer, could not reduce size without making waves with the TC, so we've stayed at that level.

[Stosh]

In 1993 when I was Web DL, I finished up my boys with AOL prior to them turning 10.5 years of age, the age at which the boys could cross over.

 

It was left up to the boys when they wanted to cross over to Scouts.  Some did when they were eligible, and others waited for their buddies. 

 

It wasn't a big deal for the Scout troop in that they would take on scouts anytime of the year regardless of any prior scouting experience.

[Eagle94-A1]

... It also helps us to hit our advancement goal of the B&G in the middle of March.

 

You just proved my point. The majority of Cub Scout leaders believe BnG is suppose to be a big advancement shindig, and not a party celebrating Scouting. Where does it say in any official Cub Scout literature that advancement needs to be completed by BnG.

 

 

I just couldn't see crossing over in January, regardless of advancement, those scouts are still fairly young. A few extra months being the top dogs around the pack can help build that confidence before they join the troop where they are the little kids again. Sure its only a few months, but a few months at that age seems to mean a lot.

 

Unless the Scouts are chomping at the bit to Cross Over. We are an active, year-round pack, and we have had some good WDLs. Plus our district, now council, Webeloree really pushes the Patrol Method, and gives a great introduction to the Boy Scout program. So they get a good taste of Boy Scouts in 4th grade as First Year Webelos. By the time December comes, they are ready.

 

Interesting note, one of our new Scouts from this pack made the comment at his BOR that the troop doesn't camp enough, and we do so once per month.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Eagle94-A1

[Eagle94-A1]

In 1993 when I was Web DL, I finished up my boys with AOL prior to them turning 10.5 years of age, the age at which the boys could cross over.

 

It was left up to the boys when they wanted to cross over to Scouts.  Some did when they were eligible, and others waited for their buddies. 

 

It wasn't a big deal for the Scout troop in that they would take on scouts anytime of the year regardless of any prior scouting experience.

 

LOTS of changes to Cub Scouts since '93.  Now the Webelos Badge is not needed to earn the AOL. Another change is 6 months since completing 4th grade OR 6 months since turning 10. Oldest was 10 years, 3 months old when he crossed over because he was in 5th grade.

[SouthernTierScouter]

You just proved my point. The majority of Cub Scout leaders believe BnG is suppose to be a big advancement shindig, and not a party celebrating Scouting. Where does it say in any official Cub Scout literature that advancement needs to be completed by BnG.

 

 

 

 

No place, you are right about that. We don't limit advancement to just up to the B&G, scouts keep working on things throughout the year until our program changes over. However, our B&G is mid march and we almost always hit rank completion (or close enough) by then. Having it all one big event works well for our parents, the moment April arrives we loose 50% of the scouts to spring sports and we'd never get families back for a second event to celebrate ranks. Works well for us to do it this way. 

 

We don't need another party to celebrate scouting, we celebrate scouting at every meeting!

[Eagle94-A1]

Having it all one big event works well for our parents, the moment April arrives we loose 50% of the scouts to spring sports and we'd never get families back for a second event to celebrate ranks. Works well for us to do it this way.

 

DANG!  April and May is prime Scouting time in my neck of the woods since the weather is better and we can go outdoors. We can usually keep ours until end of May/beginning of June. That's when we move them up and give them their new neckerchiefs and slides.

 

Edited:  We usually have 50% attendance over the summer. but  it is not like the same folks are missing every week.

 

Still floored by the 50% figure.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Eagle94-A1