Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

[Cambridgeskip]

I think Ian makes a very good point here.

 

There is a very human and very natural desire, when faced with a big problem, to look for simple causes and simple answers to those problems. Rarely do those simple causes and answers exist, especially when looking at the decline in an organisation as large as BSA.

 

Fixing those problems, whatever they are, doesn't mean having to change the core of the program. Since I joined as Cub in 1986 the UK Scout Association has changed in many ways. Age ranges, badges, uniforms, girls, PR, it's all changed. But at the end of the day what my scouts do on a Thursday night now is barely any different to what I used to do on a Tuesday night in the 1990s. What my scouts do on a camp now is barely any different to what I used to do in the 1990s. Kids in small groups, working together, outdoors at its core with some creative, community and spiritual stuff surrounding it. It hasn't changed because kids haven't really changed. They may have a lot of other options to choose from but a kid now is just as happy cooking their dinner on a fire in the woods now as they were 10, 30 or 100 years ago.

 

I'd suggest that BSA is playing the long game here. Trading losses now for recovery in 20 years time. I'd also suggest that this won't be the last change that you'll see. I suspect that there will be a big effort to capitalise on the world jamboree (which will give you some brilliant PR if 2007 is anything to go by), I'd expect to see some rebranding, changes to uniform* and as Ian suggested, a big push to change public attitudes. The results won't come over night, but they will eventually.

 

*I hope I don't offend anyone but if I could make one suggestion to BSA to change its image. Lose the badge sash. Seriously. The uniform over all isn't bad, I particularly like the navy blue shirt for cubs, much better than ours, but the sash really does have to go.

[RememberSchiff]

@@ianwilkins ,  @@Cambridgeskip well said.

Edited August 25, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle1993]

Ian.. good points. I remember as a kid when Steven Spielberg was helping at Jambo for cinematography merit badge ... but outside of that the most celebrity mention was the occasional so and so was a former scout. I think BSA does have a marketing problem. Excluding gays hurt for a while (in terms of press coverage) and Billy builds a retaining wall for an Eagle project, while honorable, doesn't bring in the recruits.

 

But the issue isn't just at a national level. Our pack had dropped from 70-80 scouts to 20s over a few years. We created a Facebook put pictures of our outings and advertised with signs outside our school. (We were banned from boy talks and any official school events due to a previous lawsuit filed by a member of the community when we still banned gays). The next year we add 23 new scouts. Several asked if we really camped in a cave, etc.

 

Our national and local image needs to change. If we add girls it may make sense for a brand refresh.

[RememberSchiff]

Regarding membership totals, is recruitment down and/or retention down?

 

Locally our annual recruitment has been about the same for the last 5 years but retention numbers are down. In exit interviews, parents and scouts cite costs, friends left,  time commitments, and other choices as factors. The "other choices" were considered less costly and more age appropriate.

 

In 2013, FOS here was asking for $125 as the annual council cost per scout. This year, FOS was asking for $350.  Hello Xbox.

Edited August 25, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Cambridgeskip]

 

In 2013, FOS here was asking for $125 as the annual council cost per scout. This year, FOS was asking for $350.  Hello Xbox.

 

Wow! The $125 is about £100 at today's exchange rate, which compares broadly with the £90 my troop charges. That covers nearly everything we do on a Thursday night and some of the less expensive weekend stuff (District incident hike, district archery competition), plus national capitation, camps come extra.

 

$350? Seriously? That is starting to sound properly expensive. Not surprised some parents are starting to make choices.

[RememberSchiff]

Wow! The $125 is about £100 at today's exchange rate, which compares broadly with the £90 my troop charges. That covers nearly everything we do on a Thursday night and some of the less expensive weekend stuff (District incident hike, district archery competition), plus national capitation, camps come extra.

 

$350? Seriously? That is starting to sound properly expensive. Not surprised some parents are starting to make choices.

 

Yes a stunning amount, the cost of a week at summer camp.  Council has said as fewer families donate "their share" , the requested amount has increased.  I'm told the majority of families in our troop donate $50 or less to FOS.

 

I should have also mentioned that  fatigue over the number of fundraisers was another exit factor.

[Eagle1993]

At our Cub Scout level recruitment numbers had dropped but that is a good point regarding retention. In the end, it is critical that the Pack has their program with the perfect combination of kids having fun and parents seeing the value. Some of our dens do better than others. But I still believe there is an image problem with the BSA... we get the funnel from scouting families but that isn't enough.

 

We don't push FOS hard ... more of a soft sell. The only fee requirement we have is the $100 we charge for annual den, pack and membership dues. Our pack is in an affluent area where parents spend $2-$3K per year on baseball camps and leagues so our $100 rarely comes up as an issue.

 

At the Cub Scout level, I tend to believe our ranks will grow if we go coed. I'm not sure about Boy Scouts and if we lose LDS I'm sure total numbers will drop.

[TAHAWK]

Research.  Polls.   Focus groups.  By actual competent people.

[Eagledad]

I doubt that the BSA's thinking on this is that specific.  They want to increase membership significantly.  I don't think they care whether they are "offsetting" past, present or possible future losses, or losses caused by the loss of a major CO vs. "regular" losses due to any number of factors.  They just want a lot more members, and I can see why increasing the potential membership base for Cubs and Boy-Scout-age programs by somewhere around 100% might seem like an attractive option.  Whether it "works" or not remains to be seen.  A lot of people have been making predictions, but I don't see the point.  Nobody really KNOWS what is going to happen in the future.

When a poster states a theory and then finishes with a comment of not understanding the point of other posters stating theories, it's time to walk away from the computer.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

When a poster states a theory and then finishes with a comment of not understanding the point of other posters stating theories, it's time to walk away from the computer.

 

Barry

 

My "theory", if you want to call it that, is about motivations, not predictions.  Two different issues.

[Eagledad]

My "theory", if you want to call it that, is about motivations, not predictions.  Two different issues.

Same thing; you don't actually know the true motivation or true future anymore than the rest of us.

 

Ok, we do know something, BSA is loosing the present membership and the plan is add new membership instead of fixing the cause of the present decline. Now that sounds like a solid plan for developing a healthy program.

 

Barry

[Tampa Turtle]

*I hope I don't offend anyone but if I could make one suggestion to BSA to change its image. Lose the badge sash. Seriously. The uniform over all isn't bad, I particularly like the navy blue shirt for cubs, much better than ours, but the sash really does have to go."

 

I was thinking of a nice ecclesiastical silk vestment with a 6 foot stole for formal occasions. A stole will leave room for plenty of merit badges and we could have a nice symbol for the scouts religious affiliation and self-identified gender. If we add a reinforced button hole and a wooden woggle at each end it could be more practical than neckers. A Patrol of 8 would have 48 feet of rescue stole for emergencies.

 

Patrol leaders would get red skull caps and the SPL a large miter making identification of boy leadership easier. 

 

[TAHAWK]

But should mere motivation excuse guesswork when research is possible?  

 

I may want a piece of candy, but the jar may be empty.  Should I check before ponying up the  "price"?  

 

BSA guessed that centering Scouting on urban living would be a winner - without asking the customers or sales force.  Look how well that worked.  The losses then make the recent losses look good by comparison.

Edited August 25, 2017 by TAHAWK

[Stosh]

For identification purposes, in one of my former troops had the PL's wear the Expedition hat with a red cord.  The SPL had a yellow cord.  One could spot them a mile away.  Today in my current troop we have blaze orange neckers.  It makes my job easier and the boys made the decision to go with them so it's a win-win for all.

[Rick_in_CA]

@@Rick_in_CA, you don't believe in cause and effect then?

 

For YEARS the year on year decline is at 2-3%.

 

Then in 2013 it increases to 6-7% AND STAYS THERE after the policy change until 2017? That's just coincidence? No other big program changes? No perv file issues. Another 70,000 people per year decided to drop Scoutignout of no where?

 

Ok. Then why do you think the rate of declined has doubled and stayed there?

 

There's a relationship between policy and decline. You don't want to see it because it doesn't fit your belief system.

So much for your reading comprehension (hey, if you insult me, I insult you back - see how scout like and better this makes things?). Here is what I wrote:

 

There is no single, or overriding reason for the decline, it a huge list of reasons. Some have to do with the policies, programs and image of the BSA, but a lot have nothing to do with the organization - our society has changed.

As you can see, I do believe that the policies of the BSA has an effect on the decline.