Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

[Eagle94-A1]

That's because it's a job for them and not a movement. 

[Stosh]

Slam "Leadership Programs for youth" into your Google search and it will kick back 130,000,000 results.

 

I scrolled down 43 pages until I found ANY vague reference to BSA.  NYLT Academy of LA had a website that if one were to look at the picture, one saw a scout uniform and the BSA logo was at the bottom of the page.

 

http://nylt-leadershipacademy.org/leadership-academy/youth-program/

 

Of course I ran into a ton of leadership training programs before I got to this one on page 43.  Campfire, 4-H, YMCA, Boy's and Girl's Club all had multiple references before the BSA, or should I say NYLT Academy

 

I guess one needs to hide the branding in the acronym before it gets any internet visibility.

 

I quit at page 50, that's about 400+ entries. 

 

The point being?  This is the future competition faciing the BSA.  I hope it's ready for it.

 

The one hit I really liked was: http://cswag.org/They have a youth leadership program AND a GIRL's leadership program.  Sadly they have no BOY's leadership program specific for them.  Oh, by the way, summer camp for them is $2,000.00+  They have an online application if anyone here wants to jump on board.

[Col. Flagg]

@@Stosh the google ranking algorithm is an easy one to manipulate. Make me BSA CIO and I'll have them #1 in two months and stay there.

 

On second thought, don't make me their CIO...I'd have to take a pay cut. Not worth it.

[Rick_in_CA]

Slam "Leadership Programs for youth" into your Google search and it will kick back 130,000,000 results.

 

I scrolled down 43 pages until I found ANY vague reference to BSA.  NYLT Academy of LA had a website that if one were to look at the picture, one saw a scout uniform and the BSA logo was at the bottom of the page.

This brings up a question, how much of the public (in and out of the scouting) thinks of the BSA primarily as a leadership program for youth? I bet most cub scouts parents don't.

 

How much does the BSA talk about youth leadership in it's marketing material and web sites? Looking at scouting.org, it does get mentioned here and there, but it isn't a primary theme. Which probably explains the Google results.

[Stosh]

Outdoor Youth development program 18,200,000 hits.

 

YMCA, 4-H, Soccer, government programs and nothing for BSA in the first 50 pages.

 

Algorithms or not, Google is the #1 Search site and this is what internet people are seeing..... a total lack of BSA presence on the internet for searching unless they have made connections elsewhere and know what to search on.  Outdoor Youth Leadership programs are pretty much well addressed on the internet without any BSA or GS/USA even on the horizon.  Now I didn't cover all 18 million hits, but I'm seeing a trend here.

[Col. Flagg]

You miss the point. Put "leadership" in key places on various web pages and in meta data headers and you're on the first page, top spot.

[Stosh]

You are correct, but you are also missing my point.  BSA is clueless how to deal with the kind of competition it is going to now face and has faced unsuccessfully.  Whereas National touts moving into the 21st Century, they remain Luddites to the process.  All these other youth programs DO show up with all their information front and center.  BSA is trolling in uncharted waters with no bait on the line.  No hook, either.  ,, and no oars in the water either.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Stosh

[qwazse]

You're picking a term pretty far down the list of methods and not even mentioned in the aim, vision, or congressional charter. Patriotic youth organization -- that at least gets an oblique reference in the front page.

 

Of course, Google itself is currently in the news for firing an employee who challenged sex-based diversity goals in a tech environment. not sure unisex programs would rise up on their radar under the category of leadership without extensive prompting.

[Stosh]

Boys and Girls Club of America predates the BSA by 50 years (1861) and has provide youth development and leadership opportunities under a federal charter just like the BSA.  BGCA, however, as a non-profit also receives government subsidies for their program.

 

4-H predates the BSA by a few years (1902) and provides youth developmental and leadership opportunities in their early years through rural agriculture.  They have now expanded their program into the urban suburban areas of the country.  Their program is heavily supported by the USDA and the County Extension programs.  They have now expanded their influence well into the suburban and urban areas of the country.

 

YMCA was like the BSA started in England in 1844.  It didn't take very long to jump the pond and entrenched itself in the US in 1851.  Being a Christian mission, over the years it has been supported by multiple denominations. 

 

Yet in 1910 BSA grew in 50 years to one of the prestigious youth programs in the country.  They were at the top of their game and then 1) either the world changed or 2) BSA changed.or 3) both changed.  Did they hold on to the old ways too long or did they bail too soon?  Will expansion of leadership among adults make a difference?  Is the world changing too fast?  Is the "outdoors" no longer relevant to today's society?

 

Lots of questions..... and so far no answers forthcoming.  Lots of guesses, but no answers.

 

BSA's reputation is focused "out in the woods" doesn't bode well for a sudden change in course mid-stream.  It gives a rather poor image of maybe a bit of desperation in light of recent decisions.

 

Over the years I have lost boys to both these organizations as well as the YMCA program in the communities I have served in.  The last one was within the past 2 years. 

 

I can't foresee any of these recent gyrations on the part of National really going to do anything to counter the current trend the BSA is on.

[RememberSchiff]

Back in the day (here he goes), Boy Scouts was the only game in town where I could be with friends and AWAY from  Mom, DAD, and annoying adults.  There was some adult association but not the domination of today and definitely not the counter-productive Family Scouting. Leadership followed naturally  and to a much lesser extent advancement. The Outdoors was our playing field and not a million dollar Council Resource Center.

 

Go back to training scouts towards patrol and individual solo (adultless) outdoor adventures. Outward Bound, AMC, and some school outing clubs  do this.

 

Less fear, more brave.

 

My $0.02

[SouthScout]

Back in the day (here he goes), Boy Scouts was the only game in town where I could be with friends and AWAY from  Mom, DAD, and annoying adults.  There was some adult association but not the domination of today and definitely not the counter-productive Family Scouting. Leadership followed naturally  and to a much lesser extent advancement. The Outdoors was our playing field and not a million dollar Council Resource Center.

 

Go back to training scouts towards patrol and individual solo (adultless) outdoor adventures. Outward Bound, AMC, and some school outing clubs  do this.

 

Less fear, more brave.

 

My $0.02

 

This is best post yet related to the crisis we face. 

[Stosh]

This is what my buddies and I did "back in the day".  The adult scouters weren't impressed and attempted many times to deter the fun we were having.  We always got parental permission and if the SM said it was okay we wore the uniform, if not, it was one less thing to pack.  Eventually we tired of the constant hassling, and so we quit scouts altogether and found another organization more receptive to our kinds of adventures.

[EmberMike]

...I quit at page 50, that's about 400+ entries. 

 

The point being?  This is the future competition faciing the BSA.  I hope it's ready for it.

 

The one hit I really liked was: http://cswag.org/They have a youth leadership program AND a GIRL's leadership program.  Sadly they have no BOY's leadership program specific for them.  Oh, by the way, summer camp for them is $2,000.00+  They have an online application if anyone here wants to jump on board.

 

And I'd venture a guess that few of them have the size, reach, and availability of the BSA. What good is that CSWAG organization to most of the county when it's only available in the Los Angeles area? As far as I can tell anyway, correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

Who else has the resources the BSA has? The access to camps? The infrastructure to provide support and resources to local units? The training resources? Not to mention the prestige of the Scouting name and the respect that achievement in the BSA garners.

 

I'd guess that there are probably less than 10 organizations in the US that really can even come close to comparing to the BSA program, and probably half that number that have the reach and resources the BSA has while being widely available in just about every community in the country.

 

I'm sure there are other things that kids could jump in to other than the BSA. But not anything that matches what the BSA has to offer. If all someone wants is youth leadership training, that can probably be found elsewhere. But if someone wants youth leadership training in an environment that fosters outdoor skills, life skills, personal growth, adventure, camping and summer camp, and a huge list of things that can be learned through the merit badge program, then I would argue that only the GSUSA is in the same ballpark. And even then they're not close enough, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing girls wanting to get into the BSA program. 

[AltadenaCraig]

Back in the day (here he goes), Boy Scouts was the only game in town where I could be with friends and AWAY from Mom, DAD, and annoying adults. There was some adult association but not the domination of today and definitely not the counter-productive Family Scouting. Leadership followed naturally and to a much lesser extent advancement.

THIS.

 

I believe the problem lies in BSA's loss of focus on its primary mission: Character development through application of the Patrol Method. Outdoors, primarily, but also via service to others (which may or may not be outdoors). But ALWAYS character development through the Patrol Method.

 

I'm certainly proud of my Eagle Scout son's accomplishment, but I'm also proud of his former Patrol-mate and fellow Philmont trek-mate, who never made it past 1st Class, but who wore his uniform - by then 2 sizes too a small - proudly to my son's Eagle ceremony.

 

I don't see how a separate all-girl Patrol, doing their own thing, would have diminished this. On the other hand, I don't see how "Family Scouting" supports Character Development. And it most certainly would subvert the Patrol Method. To be sure, "Family Scouting" scares the daylights out of me.

Edited August 14, 2017 by AltadenaCraig

[Eagle94-A1]

I've seen "Family Scouting" four times now.

 

As a youth, my troop did a family trip. Originally not a family trip, the scouts planned for a  year what they were going to do. At the last minute it became a family tip. THE MOMS SCREWED UP THE TRIP FOR US.  That troop did not do another family camp out until everyone by myself and one ASM had left. It was OK, but it was not a true Scout trip.

 

Last year my current troop did a trip that had one family show up. very skeptical, but it worked out OK. Problem was this: it opened the doors to families coming on trips.

 

June's camp out had issues with the Scouts doing what they were suppose to do. One of the problems was the older Scouts not teaching the younger scouts how to set up tents properly. Nor did the new scouts read the instructions on set up. Guess what, two new scouts went to sleep with their moms and dads when it was raining and they started getting wet. fast forward to this weekend. I must not have gotten the memo that this was going to be a family camp out because we had family members showing up left and right. SPL and ASMs walked around to make sure tents were set up properly. New parents were complaining about the kids taking so long, missing supplies etc, Ironic thing was this same parent did not know how to set up their own tent, and required three Scouters to help her out! That night it started to rain, and with the first few drops hitting the tent, son rushes to their mom's tent. Then that mom, and husband when he got there, hovered around their kid the entire weekend.

 

One ASM had a meeting with all the parents about the hovering and tenting issues. OK we understand the Scout with DOCUMENTED medical issues needing to sleep with dad ( and yes we realize that this Scout appears 100% normal and no one would supsect if known too.) but the parents need to STAY WAY. I talked to the Scouts about the same thing, and reminded them about camping in a tent you pitched needs to be done for advancement (that seems to the #1 thing the new Scouts, and their parents are interested in). later that day, one mom and her son show up. A few hours later she approaches me in a huff about is it true that they need to set up their own tent in order for the camp out to count, when I said "Yes, that's in the requirements" she has a fit and says " then what's the purpose of event coming out her?"  I told her to work on skills and have fun. After an hour of complaining to another new parent, she and her son leave. 

 

Yes, I am not looking forward to "Family Scouts."