Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

[NJCubScouter]

I think we should avoid speculation about what other forum members are doing or are going to do.  Back Pack did not say he was leaving the forum.

 

I also think that when discussing "the survey", we should keep in mind that there are several different surveys.  Someone said they believe there are as many as four different surveys.  From BackPack's description of the survey (in previous posts and maybe other threads), it sounds like he took a different survey than the one I took.  The "message from the moderators" deals with the survey that someone posted a link to in one of these threads (and I think there was only one of those) and which has the same options that are discussed in the video presentation.  That is the survey I took, but there apparently are others.

[Col. Flagg]

@@qwazse, I read his post the same way @@Gwaihir did.

 

I have to say I watched the video as well, took the survey (read others) and came to the same conclusion. I would also admit to being a bit more than dismayed that some one in an official (or semi-official) capacity would contact the moderators on this board requesting them to remove a link to the video and/or survey. I would also admit to being fed up with some of the tactics being used by Scout executives; national, council or district.

 

I see no reason not to simply put the video out there along with the survey and ask people to decide. That is, if you want a real, honest and sincere representation of what the members think.

 

Now, if you want to control an outcome then certainly limiting debate and distribution of the materials you are going to tout around later as "evidence" of what the members think, then the process being used is perfect for that. I suspect THAT is what BP is miffed about...and I cannot say as that I blame him. 

[Eagle94-A1]

Maybe I am naive, but I would not lump the DEs into the same category as the CSE and SEs.  They are sometimes in the dark like the rest of us. Heck I was the one that told the DE about the transgender membership change.

 

But some of them too see this happening though. Mine told me how when he went to TX, the word "boy" was not used to describe membership, "families" was used in its place.

[qwazse]

Yeah, national are inept control freaks, and they're listening to marketing experts, ignoring their base, yada yada.

 

This is nothing new, and they are fooling nobody. Folks who like this idea will express their enthusiasm, folks who don't will reply accordingly. Execs will pick their path. Not defending them, just saying that if this is a reason to leave, we're a few years to late.

[Eagledad]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but for the first time since I've been in scouting, I believe it is time that the volunteers take an accounting of who these people at National are and their real motivation behind the policy changes. Maybe it's time to strategize an organized accounting (resistance). Maybe a trip to Erving is required for a show of opinion by those who give one hour each week.

 

Barry

[EmberMike]

...This is nothing new, and they are fooling nobody. Folks who like this idea will express their enthusiasm, folks who don't will reply accordingly. Execs will pick their path. Not defending them, just saying that if this is a reason to leave, we're a few years to late.

 

That's kind of what I was thinking regarding Back Pack's comment about resigning. I guess everyone has their breaking point, but I think it's kind of odd that it didn't come much sooner for BP if it's based on frustration with how National operates. This kind of stuff may seem more egregious than ever, but really it's nothing new.  

[Gwaihir]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but for the first time since I've been in scouting, I believe it is time that the volunteers take an accounting of who these people at National are and their real motivation behind the policy changes. Maybe it's time to strategize an organized accounting (resistance). Maybe a trip to Erving is required for a show of opinion by those who give one hour each week.

 

Barry

 

i think youre right. 

[Col. Flagg]

Yeah, national are inept control freaks, and they're listening to marketing experts, ignoring their base, yada yada.

 

This is nothing new, and they are fooling nobody. Folks who like this idea will express their enthusiasm, folks who don't will reply accordingly. Execs will pick their path. Not defending them, just saying that if this is a reason to leave, we're a few years to late.

 

Can you recall a time where national was this secretive or manipulative in trying to appear like they are truly interested in open discussion, but shutting down debate and the inflow of an opposing view?

 

I can't.

[RememberSchiff]

Can you recall a time where national was this secretive or manipulative in trying to appear like they are truly interested in open discussion, but shutting down debate and the inflow of an opposing view?

 

I can't.

 

Yes 1972, The Improved Scouting Program.

[Tampa Turtle]

I really, really dislike how this is being handled. I am not sure what side of the issue I would go because I am tiring of all this mismanagement by National on this and so many other issues. Working with the boys is so very rewarding but I got other things I can be doing as well. I do not like feeling manipulated. 

[RememberSchiff]

Yes 1972, The Improved Scouting Program.

 

An on-going example, youth protection and the release of the 'perversion files"

 

Building "financially sustainable", over $400million Bechtel Summit estimated to draw 80,000 scouts...

 

Lions program.

[Eagle94-A1]

Yes 1972, The Improved Scouting Program.

 

Gee, I don't know. It did get Bill Hillcourt out of retirement to write the handbook I grew up with.

 

Seriously, I think the decision to go coed is the worse one to date.

 

But I am also a realist. If we are forced to go coed, and we are, then we need to do it correctly, otherwise the "sexist" and "bigoted" perception will continue to exist, and numerous packs and troops will ignore national and fully integrate, having a paper unit for the girls.

[NJCubScouter]

Lions program.

 

To be fair, Lions seems to be fairly well received by most of those who are actually involved with it.  It is mostly those (including me) of "a certain age" (i.e. those of us who remember when Lions were 10-year-olds) who have an issue with it and cannot understand how it could possibly work.

[Gwaihir]

To be fair, Lions seems to be fairly well received by most of those who are actually involved with it.  It is mostly those (including me) of "a certain age" (i.e. those of us who remember when Lions were 10-year-olds) who have an issue with it and cannot understand how it could possibly work.

 

From everything I'm seeing and hearing, most people again, are not being trustworthy or obedient, and running Lions like Tigers Jr, full inclusion into all pack events including PWD, etc.  

 

Truthfully, if the answer to everything is always "people are already doing it" then what should those who follow the rules bother following the rules?  Just run your program at your unit the way you want.  Why bother having a standardized program at all.  I'm sure uniforms will be the next to go before long. 

[MattR]

Seriously, I think the decision to go coed is the worse one to date.

 

But I am also a realist. If we are forced to go coed, and we are, then we need to do it correctly, otherwise the "sexist" and "bigoted" perception will continue to exist, and numerous packs and troops will ignore national and fully integrate, having a paper unit for the girls.

 

From my viewpoint this isn't the worst decision. It's not going to have much impact on how my troop delivers a program to our boys. The decision, over time, to make the advancement method resemble school is having a much bigger impact. Not explaining the patrol method is having a bigger impact. These two things are a constant battle. Girls, or more likely their moms, will be a problem for someone else.

 

I agree with "do it correctly." But you know it will be vague. So it gets back to troops pushing back on the rules, just like they've always done.

 

There are things one has control over and things one doesn't. I've seen a lot of adults burn out and get upset. Then they leave, bitter. I hate to say this but some of what I'm hearing here sounds like that. I keep reminding myself that as long as I can work with scouts and see them smile then I'm good.