Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

[Eagle94-A1]

If the girls really want the program, retire the Eagle rank and replace it with maybe a Phoenix rank, the resurrected dead bird and see how many girls still want to join and how many boys will stay. I am thinking the BSA will tank. If one were to go with just the merits of the program, National would realize that sentiment and politics are the only thing keeping the organization afloat.

 

 

Agree with retiring Eagle if we go coed, but suggest Turkey instead of Phoenix.  Maybe a Blue Jay since they are nest robbers.

[Stosh]

Can't go with turkey, Ben Franklin wanted that for the national bird.

[Back Pack]

I watched video. Funny how millennial parents have less time with their kids versus parents 100 years ago when:

 

- The work day was longer 100 years ago

- The work day was longer and weekends weren't non work days

- Transportation was not as wide spread back then

- School went through maybe 8th grade

- Stay home mom meant MORE work (wash, house work, cooking, shopping) than today

 

And yet many families back then managed to have family dinners, Sunday's at church and other family time.

 

Some how the milennial soccer mom can't shop from her smart phone, hire her maid, pay her online bills, and update her FaceBook status and STILL have time to spend with her kids. Give me a break!!!

Edited August 9, 2017 by Back Pack

[qwazse]

I watched video. Funny how millennial parents have less time with their kids versus parents 100 years ago

...

Some how the milennial soccer mom can't shop from her smart phone, hire her maid, pay her online bills, and update her FaceBook status and STILL have time to spend with her kids. Give me a break!!!

This is why millennial is a misnomer, and I prefer post-modern nomadic. It used to be if you got a new job 20 miles away, you up and relocated family to live within walking distance of the job.

Now, committing hours a day to commuting past lots of places you wouldn't dare live is the norm.

[Back Pack]

This is why millennial is a misnomer, and I prefer post-modern nomadic. It used to be if you got a new job 20 miles away, you up and relocated family to live within walking distance of the job.

Now, committing hours a day to commuting past lots of places you wouldn't dare live is the norm.

I can't find it now but I saw stats from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics about the spending habits of low income households. Most had 2 TVs, cable and at least two cell phones in the avg house of four. They had a car but rented. If I recall, one third even had a vacation within the last three years. The point was that these households spent money of items deemed unecessary for families also on food stamps and other benefit programs.

 

I remember that because the video brought up the need to serve under served markets. They totally gloss over the language barriers, cultural barriers and cost of scouting. Bsa also mentions that families need more time together but mention how the cub program was revamped to deliver more from the den leader and less from mom and dad. How does that address the issue of more time with families. What bsa is really doing is creating a giant baby sitting service where low income and millennial parents can drop off their kids. Tell me the 30 somethings are going to be scoutmasters or committee chairs. I've yet to see it.

[Gwaihir]

I watched video. Funny how millennial parents have less time with their kids versus parents 100 years ago when:

 

- The work day was longer 100 years ago

- The work day was longer and weekends weren't non work days

- Transportation was not as wide spread back then

- School went through maybe 8th grade

- Stay home mom meant MORE work (wash, house work, cooking, shopping) than today

 

And yet many families back then managed to have family dinners, Sunday's at church and other family time.

 

Some how the milennial soccer mom can't shop from her smart phone, hire her maid, pay her online bills, and update her FaceBook status and STILL have time to spend with her kids. Give me a break!!!

 

nailed it. 

 

Also, CSE talks about parents having less "free time" with their kids.  Scouts isn't "free time", scouts is a commitment the same as traveling sports.  Parents don't consider their kids traveling softball/baseball team "free time" either.   Kids are in a plethora of programs that cram their days and nights... this is why there's less "free time"

Edited August 9, 2017 by Gwaihir

[Col. Flagg]

In my area the parents oversubscribe their kids in to a myriad of programs. Most Asian kids (especially the Indian and Chinese kids) are in weekend science and math classes. Scouting in that community is seen more an activity that can be done after all the other stuff is done. Add in that the schools make things like band, orchestra, choir and sports events mandatory, and that leaves very little time for participating actively in Scouting.

 

I think I related this before but I will say it again.

• A friend of mine's district held a round table titled "How to Recruit in Under-Served Communities". GREAT!!! Who wouldn't want to learn tips and tricks at doing that, right?
   
• They attend the session and it is a Powerpoint presentation on the demographics of the area. Good helpful.
   
• Then they discussed what (they thought based on some Googling) each demographic wanted for their kids. Head scratching started because the info was highly generalized and very stereotypical (e.g., "Hispanic Catholics have lots of kids so faith is important" or "poor families have one parent so time is crucial to them").
   
• The major take-away was that to recruit minorities you need to show that your are diverse in your unit's make up.  Meaning that if you have a bunch of white kids in your unit, you need to show that you have more color than just white. The looks of utter confusion sets in as people look around the room. "Isn't that why we are here? We know we are not diverse and we are looking for ways to get more diverse", says one brave soul.
   
• At the end of the presentation, the big reveal was a slide that said "Recruit More Minorities!". Not HOW to recruit more. Not "Here's five things you can do to recruit more". Simply, go out and recruit more people of color and FORGET the fact that their main reason for wanting to join is to associate with a few more people of their color.

BTW, this was a council-based presentation, so this wasn't John The Redneck putting together what he thought would be helpful. This was a slick deck put together by council with a video attached. If THIS is an example of how Surbaugh is going to get BSA to recruit in disadvantaged communities, Lord Krishna help us.

[Eagledad]

Agree with retiring Eagle if we go coed, but suggest Turkey instead of Phoenix.  Maybe a Blue Jay since they are nest robbers.

 That's good.

 

Barry

[walk in the woods]

That is what I saw in the presentation, except that the sentence I have bolded is not completely correct based on what I saw.  The idea of being together for opening/closing and otherwise split up by den would ONLY be for "Mixed pack with gender-specific dens".  It would not be used in any context for "Boy-Scout-age" youth, which I think is what you mean by "11-14 year olds."  The Boy Scout-age units of different genders would not meet together - unless of course you believe that they will anyway regardless of what the BSA is saying.

 

Another thing is, you say  a separate program for girls starting at age 11 (regardless of whether a "partner" program or a "parallel" program) would be for "11-14 year olds."   Other than your post, I have never heard or seen it suggested that a new program would end at age 14.  Boy Scouts is for boys 11 (or 10 in some cases) to the 18th birthday.  I would think the age range of a "parallel" program for girls would be the same.  In other words, I see no indication that they are intending to remove the overlap in ages between Boy Scouts/Non-Boy Scouts* and Venturing.

 

*I don't think it is going to be called "Non-Boy Scouts", at least I hope not.  I just wanted a shorthand name to refer to this future program, and "Girl Scouts" is already taken.

Yeah, the opening/split/closing thing was mentioned for Cubs.  I may have inferred it into the Boy/Non-Boy program.  I do suspect a single charter though would have a single meeting night, especially if they don't have full patrol/troop of non-boys .  And I agree, I typed 11-14 but should have typed 11-18.  Although I wonder if it's not the right time to make that age split and 14 and bring everybody into Venturing then.....

[qwazse]

... so this wasn't John The Redneck putting together what he thought would be helpful. ...

I would rather hear from Johnny Red after he put in a few months trying ... telling us how he got 'er done, or didn't.

[Back Pack]

I applaud the mods refusing to remove the video link.

 

I'm disappointed that they towed the party line of "watch the video before you take the survey" excuse.

 

The video is propaganda. They survey contrived. It's demeaning to think adults involved in scouting can't read a survey and make up their mind without first watching a video purely designed to influence a specific outcome.

 

I am MOST disappointed that bsa would resort to this type of clandestine, strong arm tactic. They've lost my trust, my respect and my time. I've resigned my position. I cannot be part of an organization that continues to prove they have no honor.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Back Pack

[qwazse]

Bye?

[Col. Flagg]

Bye?

 

Can't tell. Are you mocking BP for stepping down and holding to his principles?

[qwazse]

Can't tell. Are you mocking BP for stepping down and holding to his principles?

My apologies if this sounds like I'm talking behind BP's back. I honestly don't know if by resigning, he also abandoned this forum.

 

I'm not sure what the his principle is. He said he watched the video. (I'm assuming prior to completing the survey.) Then, he's indignant over national telling people to watch the video prior to completing the survey. I feel bad that I may have contributed to the rage by considering the "family accessible" mantra as doublespeak. On the other hand, it was National's decision to choose imprecise language to market this concept, and I wrote my SE warning that this tactic would only entrench the boots on the ground of this organization.

 

It's no different than the moms who I love and cherish who are all up in arms about our boys hearing the POTUS speak live. You don't have to like them man, but please respect that our boys are smart enough to apply the good head we're putting on their shoulders.

 

If someone's opinion may be swayed by CSE's golden voice, so be it. But, give National it's due. (Although, really, it would be nice if they provided a link to the video in the survey.)

[Gwaihir]

My apologies if this sounds like I'm talking behind BP's back. I honestly don't know if by resigning, he also abandoned this forum.

 

I'm not sure what the his principle is. He said he watched the video. (I'm assuming prior to completing the survey.) Then, he's indignant over national telling people to watch the video prior to completing the survey. I feel bad that I may have contributed to the rage by considering the "family accessible" mantra as doublespeak. On the other hand, it was National's decision to choose imprecise language to market this concept, and I wrote my SE warning that this tactic would only entrench the boots on the ground of this organization.

 

It's no different than the moms who I love and cherish who are all up in arms about our boys hearing the POTUS speak live. You don't have to like them man, but please respect that our boys are smart enough to apply the good head we're putting on their shoulders.

 

If someone's opinion may be swayed by CSE's golden voice, so be it. But, give National it's due. (Although, really, it would be nice if they provided a link to the video in the survey.)

 

I'll let him speak for himself, but the way I read his last post, it sounded like his decision to resign was based on the secretive nature of the approach being used.