Outside Magazine: Boy Scouts Should Allow Girls

[EmberMike]

Source? Because I didn't see that in any survey I saw.

 

Surbaugh's presentation. I'll try to quote it as best I can:

 

"Consider a proposed structure that would have a mechanism for bringing in family cub scouts of boy dens and girl dens, also packs that are single gender, boys and girls, offering that as an option for COs and parents."

 

I take that to mean it will be a local option to have a single-gender unit. 

[Col. Flagg]

Surbaugh's presentation. I'll try to quote it as best I can:

 

"Consider a proposed structure that would have a mechanism for bringing in family cub scouts of boy dens and girl dens, also packs that are single gender, boys and girls, offering that as an option for COs and parents."

 

I take that to mean it will be a local option to have a single-gender unit. 

 

That's vague at best.

[Eagledad]

I think it's crazy for a kid who is close to Eagle to be thinking about quitting over this. What a waste to throw away years of work, over something that might not even directly affect them at all. 

That is an interesting perspective. I'm not suggesting your are wrong, you are probably right. But this is the downfall of the current BSA as we know it because I think it's crazy any scout would stay in the program only for the Eagle when he would otherwise get out.

 

I think the BSA has lost it's soul. So maybe it was inevitable that it turn into an after school program.

 

Barry

[Fehler]

I think its absurd to assume that the people who post 5 times to this topic in the last hour are in any way representative of the membership of the BSA at large.

[Col. Flagg]

I think its absurd to assume that the people who post 5 times to this topic in the last hour are in any way representative of the membership of the BSA at large.

 

Your right. Let's look at the surveys. Oh wait, they said the SAME THING that the people posting in the last hour have said!!!

Edited August 8, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Gwaihir]

But this is the downfall of the current BSA as we know it because I think it's crazy any scout would stay in the program only for the Eagle when he would otherwise get out.

 

 

 

Barry

Exactly. 

[EmberMike]

That's vague at best.

 

 

Surbaugh spoke directly to wanting COs to have the option of single-gender units. It was in the presentation visuals as well. I suppose he was vague on the details of it, but I do think it answers the question of whether a local option is on the table. 

[EmberMike]

That is an interesting perspective. I'm not suggesting your are wrong, you are probably right. But this is the downfall of the current BSA as we know it because I think it's crazy any scout would stay in the program only for the Eagle when he would otherwise get out.

 

I think the BSA has lost it's soul. So maybe it was inevitable that it turn into an after school program.

 

Barry

 

I guess part of my issue with this is that I don't know that we can say any of these boys would really rather get out. In one of the responses to being asked about co-ed scouting that someone posted earlier, the boy said something about seeing girls in band practice every day, and he wouldn't want to see all the same faces in scouts too. Realistically, though, that probably would never happen. How likely is it that a group of girls from a specific activity this boy does are all going to want to join at this stage in their lives (which I'm assuming is high school if they're in regular band practices)? 

 

I'm just imagining that some of the reasons kids might quit as it relates to the co-ed discussion might not really be good reasons to quit. If someone has a strong personal conviction that makes the BSA simply unbearable if girls are allowed in, I get that. But if it's just some unlikely event, like the idea that too many people you know will want to join, I'm just not convinced that these boys are making these decisions with this issue adequately laid out in front of them to consider. 

 

I guess I'd just rather see everyone, scouts and scouters alike, take a more "wait and see" approach before deciding anything drastic. I would imagine that a boy who quits over the idea of girls in his troop would regret that decision years later if no girls ever actually joined his troop in the time he would have been there. If he was taking a stand for something he believed in, then I'd be wrong about that. But if he did it to avoid seeing girls from school, I think most boys would come to regard that decision as a mistake. 

[NJCubScouter]

The presentation I saw and the follow on discussion was about:

 

Cub Scouts: Boy-Only Pack, Girl-Only Pack, Mixed pack with gender-specific dens.

Boy Scouts: Partner with a separate organization for girls 11-14, create a parallel BSA organization for girls 11-14.  

 

That was the extent of local option offered.  The suggestion for both was they would come together for opening/closing ceremonies, then split for Dens in CS, split by gender for 11-14 year olds.  Basically the Trail Life/AHG model.

 

That is what I saw in the presentation, except that the sentence I have bolded is not completely correct based on what I saw.  The idea of being together for opening/closing and otherwise split up by den would ONLY be for "Mixed pack with gender-specific dens".  It would not be used in any context for "Boy-Scout-age" youth, which I think is what you mean by "11-14 year olds."  The Boy Scout-age units of different genders would not meet together - unless of course you believe that they will anyway regardless of what the BSA is saying.

 

Another thing is, you say  a separate program for girls starting at age 11 (regardless of whether a "partner" program or a "parallel" program) would be for "11-14 year olds."   Other than your post, I have never heard or seen it suggested that a new program would end at age 14.  Boy Scouts is for boys 11 (or 10 in some cases) to the 18th birthday.  I would think the age range of a "parallel" program for girls would be the same.  In other words, I see no indication that they are intending to remove the overlap in ages between Boy Scouts/Non-Boy Scouts* and Venturing.

 

*I don't think it is going to be called "Non-Boy Scouts", at least I hope not.  I just wanted a shorthand name to refer to this future program, and "Girl Scouts" is already taken.

[NJCubScouter]

I guess I'd just rather see everyone, scouts and scouters alike, take a more "wait and see" approach before deciding anything drastic.

 

Me too.

[Eagle94-A1]

I said it once, I'll say it again, the model being proposed, specifically Coed Cubs, Single Gender Scout, Coed  Venturing WILL NOT WORK IN THE USA. (caps for emphasis not shouting.)

 

Partnering with an organization will not work because existing ones do not want to work with us. Plus one of them, GSUSA, has a program that royally sucks from the amount of complaints I hear and read about.

 

As for starting our own program, BSA did just that in 1910 with Campfire Girls. It went its own way then. But in today's PC world, you know that BSA creating a girl-only program would only raise the howls of 'Sexists" and the  will reignite the raging membership wildfire that is not only distracting and hurting our Scouts, and  but also waste valuable time and resources that could be used for other more important things.

[Back Pack]

How likely is it that a group of girls from a specific activity this boy does are all going to want to join at this stage in their lives

Did you miss the major premise of Surbaugh's video where he said 1) one stop shop for parents, 2) a place for daughters?

 

It's worse than just seeing the girls from school. You have to be in the same pack and troop as your sister!!

[EmberMike]

Did you miss the major premise of Surbaugh's video where he said 1) one stop shop for parents, 2) a place for daughters?

 

I was talking about a specific case, not the broader context Surbaugh was addressing. I was referring to a high school kid. Do you really think high school girls are going to join the Boy Scouts? We can't get high school boys to join. 

[Stosh]

Just some observations...

 

I wonder what the conversation was between Lord BP and Lady BP that resulted in Boy Scouts and Girl Guides needing to be separated? Then I wonder if any of the conversation would be relevent to this thread. And then how many of their comments would get a red down arrow?

 

The local option is a farce unless one is planning to hold meetings in the proverbial closet.. all outings would have to be sanctioned by BSA but run totally independent. Once one leaves the closet, all BSA activity is coed, so in reality local option is only for the local activity. It would seem that the local option isn't any option whatsoever.

[Stosh]

If the girls really want the program, retire the Eagle rank and replace it with maybe a Phoenix rank, the resurrected dead bird and see how many girls still want to join and how many boys will stay. I am thinking the BSA will tank. If one were to go with just the merits of the program, National would realize that sentiment and politics are the only thing keeping the organization afloat.