Female Sibling on Campout?

[askyourspl]

Looking for some clarification on this. Are there any rules regarding an ASM bringing his daughter 14 years old, on a troop campout? 

[resqman]

Is she registered with an Explorer Post?

[RememberSchiff]

Welcome to scouter.com.

[askyourspl]

Is she registered with an Explorer Post?

No, not registered as an Explorer or Venture Crew member. 

[Col. Flagg]

Looking for some clarification on this. Are there any rules regarding an ASM bringing his daughter 14 years old, on a troop campout? 

 

There's all sorts of rules that would need to be followed, but if you are asking if there's a rule barring him from bringing her I don't think there is. I had to bring my daughter once. Followed all the rules and regulations.

[jwest09]

BSA rules?  No.  COs and thus troops may set their own rules, as may individual camp groups / events.

[RichardB]

Other than the obvious fact that this is not the scouting program?   Or asked another way, what Boy Scouts literature or handbook is this in and what page it it on?   

[qwazse]

Other than the obvious fact that this is not the scouting program?   Or asked another way, what Boy Scouts literature or handbook is this in and what page it it on?   

 

Not that I would interpret this way (having started a venturing crew to address issues like these), but the following paragraph in The Guide to Safe Scouting could lead one to infer that a female child may be brought on a troop overnight, if one of the leaders is a female adult.

 

Adult Supervision/Coed Activities

Male and female adult leaders must be present for all overnight coed Scouting trips and outings, even those including parent and child. Both male and female adult leaders must be 21 years of age or older, and one must be a registered member of the BSA.

 

Furthermore, according to recent BSA decisions to play the identity game, the adult need only identify as female, or the youth as male ... problem solved.

 

@@askyourspl, here are some more questions to think about:

• Is this a no-other choice situation? (E.g. single-parent SM, only weekend with custody.)
• Could the weekend go forward without the SM?
• Does the youth in question like to hike and camp?
• Sex of the youth aside, is she first class material?

Depending on the answer to these, the best solution might be to get acquainted with the SM's daughter. Find out if she, along with a couple of the older Boy Scouts would like to start a venturing crew. If yes, then find a few adults who are willing to step up and make it so.

[jwest09]

In most cases, "things which are not prohibited are permitted." Since the BSA has not expressly prohibited family members from visiting camp and other events, one must conclude it is permitted.  Many troops do, in fact, organize regular family camp outs that are intended for Scout and non-Scout members of Scouting families to be able to participate in.

 

That said, I would find it inappropriate if the young lady wanted to participate in patrol activities on a typical patrol-oriented camp out.  I would probably consider the young lady a "visitor," and would have an expectation that she not distract or interfere with the youth program.

 

(And can we try to avoid making derogatory comments about trans people in any conversation pertaining to gender, especially when you have to reach so far to make a "connection?"  Its rude and immature.  I expect the youth I work with to do their best to obey the Oath and Law, and I'm not sure why adults like to exempt themselves from acting courteously in these situations.)

[Back Pack]

BSA literature? Were it not for the lack of clarity and contradictions contained in these documents one might actually find what they were looking for.

[qwazse]

@@jwest09, I am not derogating any exceptional individuals. I am allowing for the possibility that, given policy shifts, this could be in play, if not in this situation, then in a parallel situation across the scouter-verse.

[RichardB]

The OP is "I am assuming" talking about the current single gender boy scout program of the BSA.    Outside of family camping (this was not in the OP called a family camp - it was a troop campout) there is not a provision for the daughter of the ASM.    

 

So more questions - did the PLC approve this? (OP is ask your SPL after all) or is she providing programming?   Still can't see how this is part of any official scouting activity.  

 

Quaze, that use of the barriers to abuse is really out there.   I don't think I've ever seen it pitched that way....

[RichardB]

In the link provided to the GTSS there is also this statement:  "..If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers..."

 

I'd suggest that a 14 year old female sibling might be just as distracting.....

[Col. Flagg]

That said, I would find it inappropriate if the young lady wanted to participate in patrol activities on a typical patrol-oriented camp out.  I would probably consider the young lady a "visitor," and would have an expectation that she not distract or interfere with the youth program.

 

If she's a Venturing member and has to be on the camp out for certain reasons (single dad needs to take her), I don't see any problem with here participating in unit activities such as troop hikes, fishing or other troop events. She would not be allowed to visit the patrol areas of course. If it were a camporee she'd need to hang with dad, otherwise, I don't see why she couldn't do some of the troop activities.

[askyourspl]

Thanks for all of the great responses to my original post. In answer to some of the questions and comments:

 

- yes, we are talking about troop campouts, not family campouts (we have one/year). 

- this is not PLC approved, nor even brought up for discussion

- weekend would go on without this ASM Dad - we always have plenty of leaders in attendance

- yes, the BSA literature lacks clarity on this topic - I've been searching for some time.

- the Dad is trying to start a Venture Crew, but the numbers/interest isn't there at this point

 

The ASM/Dad is a good leader, well liked and a great asset to the troop, but he has brought his daughter on several campouts and doesn't see any issue with it. Several boys have questioned why Scout X's big sister is coming on the campouts. Several adult leaders view her presence as a distraction to some of the boys. As we all know, boys tend to act differently around girls at this age. We are also uncertain as to what are the BSA guidelines regarding this - is a non-registered, non-adult family member even allowed on a campout? Would a registered female leader be required? Also, I'm certain that most parents assume the only people attending our weekend campouts are registered Scouts, parents and leaders and would be unaware/surprised that there is a teenage girl there with there sons. 

 

My personal feeling is that scouting provides an opportunity for boys of varying ages and different groups (jocks, "cool kids", "nerds", special needs, etc) to come together in a place where none of these titles matter and they can let their guard down to interact and be themselves. Adding a 14 year old girl to the mix changes this dynamic. If there is nothing preventing her attending, we can live with it, but I also want to follow the rules regarding youth protection, etc.