Just wonderin'

[TAHAWK]

Sorry, Stosh.  Very literary presentation, but no sale on the no hope part.

 

As I said, our strongest troops are the most "traditional," and they have no issues with recruiting or retention.

 

On less than a month's notice, I have recruited fourteen Scouters to come to Summer Camp and train Scoutmasters Tues-Thurs of each week in the hot and sticky.   Just need some more.  Of course, they agree only because of the camp meals they will get.

 

If last year is any pattern, we will train 120 SMs and ASMs.   The weekend courses will train sixty-four more - 184 adults who don't know it's hopeless.  Of course this is Cleveland where we have learned that being down does not mean you're out.

 

No more logical that the anecdotes you list, but BSA membership peaked six years after that song came out and collapsed with the Improved Scouting Program, not the warbling of Moma Cass.  

 

Reminds me about the debates over who was more prophetic, the Stones with Street Fighting Man or the Beatles with Revolution.

[TAHAWK]

I don't think Scouting is "failing".

But, then, our opinions are suspect due to prejudice.

 

As are the others.

[DadScouts]

Successful outshines the stupid. Good luck against  coaches of  winning school teams whose students score scholarships.

Local HS has about 15 male sports.  Of the 2 best 1 was created and coached the entire time by an Eagle Scout.  About 10% of the team is Eagles and about 5% of the team attends West Point, Naval Academy, or Air Force Academy.  Coaches who understand the potential of Scouting know how to use those Scouts.  As an aside, know personally the # of kids who never get those scholarships but thought they were is VERY high.  Worse yet, the # of kids who get the scholarships and then drop the sport or transfer to another college is equally high.  Trying to play a sport so a school pays for college has to be about the worst investment of time, money, and emotion the world has ever known.  I don't see that same failing investment returns for time spent in Scouting but rather hear more adults lament not staying in Scouting for longer.  

[TAHAWK]

And a high percentage of the footballer are maimed. I thought I escaped until my right knee started locking at age 40.  Doc looked at X-rays and said: "You played football didn't you, dummy."  I was too intimidated to mention catching baseball.  

[Stosh]

Hmmm,

 

The fastest growing male groups in America today tend to be "gang" related.  Must be an old English word because BP used it on occasion.

 

I wonder what the life-expectancy is among these 11-18 year olds who choose a loner lifestyle to be safe?

 

I wonder whether the avoidance of sports to reduce health concerns later in life is really all that legitimate or if someone is just making that up?  A Big-Ten school required it's potential athletic scholarship  recipients to undergo a physical to be able to safely continue playing on a collegiate level.  90% did not pass the physical and needed to apply at other colleges for scholarships  So, was concussion history part of that physical?  Nope, but undiagnosed neck injuries were.  That's ran the score up to 90%.  .

 

I think I once read somewhere that the out-cast adolescents had a higher level of depression and suicide rates than those that had "support" groups around them.  Of course there could be the ridiculous assumption that high dropout rates among adolescents  is because they are avoiding the social dangers posed by the gangs of bullies in the current public school system.

 

If what I am pointing is is full of anecdotal and speculative BS, Feel free to explain to me:

 

The rise in

 

Gang activity,

Drug and alcohol usage

Home environments supported by only one of the parents and/or influenced by step-adults and a suitcase lifestyle of multiple "homes".

Public schools that often note their drop-out rate somewhere around 50%

Adolescent crime, even among those in the scout ranks.

 

 

and the decline in:

 

Customary social skills.

Interpersonal skills on any peer or adult levels.

Duration of any relationship.

 

Now for debate purposes we could individually tear into each one of these and find statistics to support a myriad of conclusions, we admit to Houston we have a problem or one can, or we can take the old toy away from the baby and give it a new bright shiny one with bells and whistles to distract it for a while, or one can acutally start taking a critical look at some of these issues and deciding whether or not BSA is either in the business of dealing with any of them or do they ignore it and go for the bells and whistles?

 

At my age, I am really not all that interested in investing a lot of time and effort into the dialog.  I have 5 granddaughters and 2 grandsons.  What's my odds of having to deal with what BSA comes up with to meet it's declining membership, budget drops, and other business issues it is faced with.

 

Society changed, BSA changed.... but did they take the same trail?  or did both just wander off into the woods somewhere?

[TAHAWK]

"At my age, I am really not all that interested in investing a lot of time and effort into the dialog"

Stosh  11762 posts

 

[Rick_in_CA]

The world didn't change, the people did.

Actually the world did change. Two big changes: both parents having to work full time, and fear.

 

When I was a kid (and in scouts), almost the whole neighborhood had stay at home moms. Those that did work, worked part-time so they would be there when their kids got home from school. The moms talked and did things together. Those block parties? The moms planned those. Send all those moms to work full time, and a lot of the community building goes away.

 

Then there is the fear. As a kid, I played with the other kids in the neighborhood. We ran around outside and played at each other homes. My friends were my school mates and neighbors. We all got ourselves to scout meetings, little league, school, etc. on our bicycles. Now fear prevents a lot of this.

 

In my scout troop, I could easily bicycle to the home of every member. How many troops can say that now?

 

People's communities are now based around work, activities, church, etc, not their neighborhood.

 

So the world did change. Some is for the better, but some is not. But it is change.

[Back Pack]

In many cases both parents don't "have" to work. They want to work for various reasons. If they wanted to have one parent stay home they could, but that would mean sacrifice. Many people are unwilling to do that.

[TAHAWK]

In many cases both parents don't "have" to work. They want to work for various reasons. If they wanted to have one parent stay home they could, but that would mean sacrifice. Many people are unwilling to do that.

Any statistical studies on this?  

 

I know some families not making it with both parents working at two jobs each, driving 10-year-old bangers to and from those jobs.

 

Could it be poor resource management?  Sure.  Look at the average credit card debt per household.  People have homes full of expensive products that did not exist when I graduated college, but they are "must have" possessions.

 

New Residential dwellings

Median square feet  1973:  1512            Average square feet 1973:  1660

 

Median square feel  2010:   2169           Average square feet 2010:  2392

Edited June 3, 2017 by TAHAWK

[qwazse]

Thumbs again! I'll never get this hand-held and it's moving targets!

But, following on T.Hawk (who is worthy of a plus, not minus) ... it's not just one home. The second home is a must have. The in-laws really could benefit from our watchful eyes, either here in PA or at their other child's in FL but they won't countenance sharing a roof in the towns where their kids live, but none of their childhood friends have moved.

 

Worse, we've stopped reproducing. So that soft-hearted grandchild who loves to caretaker and needs a roof is harder to find. (Thank God for the immigrants who have come to fill in our voids.)

 

Then, there's the cabin in the woods someplace (a given for many WPa families). In our case, it's a lake house that we're trying to keep in the family.

 

Live like kings? Gotta work to maintain it.

[Stosh]

In many cases both parents don't "have" to work. They want to work for various reasons. If they wanted to have one parent stay home they could, but that would mean sacrifice. Many people are unwilling to do that

 

It's all about choices, no problem.  We all choose "community" in different ways.  Some want work careers, some want families, some stick with the non-personal tech contacts, others have church,  small town and other options.  What was once a interconnected "package" now seems to be quite fragmented and what the right hand is doing is unknown to the left.

 

There's no judgment intended, just an observation on the situation.

 

By the way, there are still those who choose "the old fashioned" ways and do just fine.

 

Although it may appear the "world" has changed, it is in fact the same old world, sun comes up in the east and sets in the west, but the people?  Yep, they are the ones that change.

 

No, one cannot get others to conform to one's ideal world, but they don't have to choose a lifestyle they don't wish to live.

 

One can't honestly blame other for the poor choices we make in life.  Saying the "world" changed, is just another way of passing the buck and saying I didn't have a choice, when in fact one did.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Stosh

[Stosh]

"At my age, I am really not all that interested in investing a lot of time and effort into the dialog"

Stosh  11762 posts

 

  Look at my signature line, at least I try to dialog on issues that either interest me or I know a little something about.  After 45+ years with being registered with BSA, I learned a bit along the way.  It kinda hooks into my philosophy of "help other people at all times" thingy.  If one can't be a glowing example, at least be a dire warning.

[TAHAWK]

If one can't be a glowing example, at least be a dire warning.   

[Col. Flagg]

I saw the stats on this recently, but the percentage of people below the poverty line that have cable TV, cell phones and other such non-essential items was quite high...above 70%.

[RememberSchiff]

I saw the stats on this recently, but the percentage of people below the poverty line that have cable TV, cell phones and other such non-essential items was quite high...above 70%.

Cell phone non-essential? Who still has a land line?