News from National Meeting?

[Gwaihir]

To the best of my recollection, young ladies from the sororities were almost always welcome at the frat houses.....

 

True, though not as fraternity brothers, but as love conquests.  

 

And by this analogy, the Girl Scouts of America often do joint projects/events with the Boy Scouts of America.  But you don't see the Kappa Alpha Theta and Kappa Sigma just becoming the same organization or the Kappa Sigma allowing women "brothers" 

[Rick_in_CA]

In Baloo locally, over 80% of the trainees are male - 16 of 19 at the Baloo course earlier this month.

Interesting, I took Baloo several years ago, and then helped teach a Baloo course a few years later, and my OWLs course were all about half women. When I took IOLS a couple of years ago, it was about a third women.

[TAHAWK]

Is it intolerable to accept girls into the BSA?  Or intolerable not to?

Perfectly tolerable to me to let girls in, if the CO agrees.  I help with Venturing.  That's where I hear about trouble recruiting adult  female campers.

 

Moreover, unlike some here, what I get from Scouters in Canada, is that they underestimated the problems co-ed Scouting adds to the load.  And, according to them, it cost them heavily membership, as did the "solution" to the gay issue.  

 

Others, right and left, are not tolerant of optional co-ed Scouting.  For some it's too much, and for others not enough.  They have a right to hold an opinion that is at least as good as mine.   It just that, lately, freedom of speech is a one-way street.  

 

The some that want "progress" always seem to want more.  They will not tolerate less than 100% of what they see as right and virtuous.  Their rhetoric has not cooled down.  Their idea of "compromise":   "For now, we get at least some of what we want .  You didn't give up everything.  See, both sides got something."  Sort of like "compromise" on government spending: only the rate of increase is one the table.

 

The big change pushed by the employees of BSA started just about as membership peaked, and we are down at least 50% since.  How's that Change business working for y'all?  Whose Scouting is it?  Scouting, that is, as distinct from the 501©(3) Delaware corporation headquartered in Irving, Texas, and it's institutional objectives.

 

And I just hate being pushed. "My way or else."  It makes it harder to see merit in the side pushing, even if it's there.  

When I got pelted with eggs by "antiwar" types in 1965, because I was in the line-of-fire between them and the drilling ROTC members, I was less concerned with the wisdom of the War than the egg innards in my hair and running down my neck and the broken glasses I would need to replace out of $350/month, gross.  I wanted eggs to throw back.

[Eagle94-A1]

Interesting, I took Baloo several years ago, and then helped teach a Baloo course a few years later, and my OWLs course were all about half women. When I took IOLS a couple of years ago, it was about a third women.

 

It's been a while since I did BALOO, but my class class had 2 females out of approximately 20.

 

Last IOLS class had 1 female out of 10.

[qwazse]

you've heard my "it's a big country" spiel which serves as my reply to the variety of local experience we see reported. I'll not belabor that point.

 

I think the real 900 pound gorilla is American Heritage Girls. They are enabling sponsors to configure these joined units (at least at cub level) without the stress of forcing change on either organization. For a change to be profitable to BSA, they would have to win back those girls. I don't think counsels have it in them to compete against that model.

[NJCubScouter]

This thread is being moved to Issues and Politics.

[NJCubScouter]

I think the real 900 pound gorilla is American Heritage Girls. They are enabling sponsors to configure these joined units (at least at cub level) without the stress of forcing change on either organization. For a change to be profitable to BSA, they would have to win back those girls. I don't think counsels have it in them to compete against that model.

That may be true in some parts of the country, but AHG has barely made a dent in other areas. According to the unit locator on their website, the closest of their units to my town is about 30 miles away and the next closest is about 50 miles away. If I am reading this correctly there are five units in my entire state. Meanwhile almost every little town has a Cub Scout pack.

[Stosh]

But I'm wondering Stosh, how many join the BSA for the all-boys aspect?   Sure, I'm biased but I'd say the percentage isn't very high.  Not enough to sustain an organization the size of the BSA.  Not in 2017, or beyond.

 

Well, we are talking about the "fumes" here and that means 15-18 year olds.  So if the all-boy aspect isn't important, why isn't Venturing setting any records?  They opened the doors for co-ed older scouts and it just ain't doin' what it's s;posed to.  As a matter of fact, one could make the case that the "fumes" are hitting Venturing harder than they are Boy Scouting and Venturing is bending over backwards going nowhere.

[desertrat77]

Well, we are talking about the "fumes" here and that means 15-18 year olds.  So if the all-boy aspect isn't important, why isn't Venturing setting any records?  They opened the doors for co-ed older scouts and it just ain't doin' what it's s;posed to.  As a matter of fact, one could make the case that the "fumes" are hitting Venturing harder than they are Boy Scouting and Venturing is bending over backwards going nowhere.

I think Venturing is in a lull due to the lack of the right kind of adult advisors.  Outdoorsmen/women.  Physically fit.  Energetic.  Visionaries.  Motivators.   There are some advisors that fit the bill, but many are just not ready for the challenges.   They may be okay for pack and troop level scouting, but I think Venturing requires an adult that has leadership skills above/beyond.

 

The other limiting factor concerns many of the youth that are already in Venturing.   From what I've seen, they go through the motions of having meetings and such, but they aren't interested in pushing the boundaries and gaining the potential benefits of the program as set forth from National.   Inert Star/Life scouts that are bored with their troop, and looking for a safe place to hide.  If anything gets done, it's accomplished by the girls.

 

I've been to a couple of Venture crew recruiting events that were disasters from the get-go.  Potential recruits ignored while the crew members gossip with each other or sit blankly looking at their phones.  Program?  Oh you know, just kind of float along...and the recruits leave and don't come back.

 

I'm a firm believer in the Venture program, but it needs a serious jump start, beginning at the advisor level.

 

Edited to add:  Venturing is one program that I think National got right.   A lot of thought and effort went into it, and I give kudos to the folks that got it rolling.  However, implementation has been hit/miss, in the field.

Edited May 30, 2017 by desertrat77

[qwazse]

@@Stosh, that was supposed to be +1. (Monday night hockey thumbs.)

BSA has shown an inability to retain Venturers. That's not a failure of co-Ed per se, but it does show that the demand among COs for a coed you-led movement is thin. Without expensive promotion to gain national recognition over a number of decades

 

That's another issue: there's $ for STEM. Where are the big donors to maintain the steam for

 

@@NJCubScouter, I'd interpret AHG's #s two ways:

1. They haven't had a meteoric rise (although they were one of the few organizations BSA wanted to work with), so what evidence is there tha BSA would have any greater growth?

2. They have had growth while we haven't. Does BSA really think they'll cede their market share?

[desertrat77]

@@qwazse, fixed Stosh's red, good luck with the thumbs

 

PS  I think Venturing would take off nation-wide with the right recruiting effort and motivated leaders charting the course.  Both factors are in short supply.

Edited May 30, 2017 by desertrat77

[MattR]

I think Venturing is in a lull due to the lack of the right kind of adult advisors.  Outdoorsmen/women.  Physically fit.  Energetic.  Visionaries.  Motivators.   There are some advisors that fit the bill, but many are just not ready for the challenges.   They may be okay for pack and troop level scouting, but I think Venturing requires an adult that has leadership skills above/beyond.

 

Edited to add:  Venturing is one program that I think National got right.   A lot of thought and effort went into it, and I give kudos to the folks that got it rolling.  However, implementation has been hit/miss, in the field.

 

This is just my opinion, but Venturing seems to be suffering from the same problems that Boy Scouts has, only it's worse. Namely, scout leadership is even more important in venturing, because there's no advancement carrot such as Eagle, and yet the venturing scouts I've seen have no more leadership skills than the boy scouts. It takes a certain amount of self motivation to make things happen. Without it scouts just sit and wait for someone else to do do it. The parents aren't around in venturing to run things. That's why I think fixing venturing will fix boy scouts. This has little to do with coed.

[Eagle94-A1]

One other concern that hit me this morning: helicopter parents.  With national's new emphasis on family instead of boys, I see a major increase in the number of helicopter parents.

[DuctTape]

A co-ed unit will need adult female campers unless we are to drop what is left of the "outdoor" method.  Some of our local Venturing units have had a problem getting adult females to camp in all but the most favorable weather conditions.

 

In Baloo locally, over 80% of the trainees are male - 16 of 19 at the Baloo course earlier this month.

I returned yesterday from a 30 mile backpacking trip. 7 people, 4 were women in their 20s-30s. There is a significant number of women who enjoy outdoor adventure. In my experience, while men still outnumber them in pure numbers, the ratio of adventure campers to plop campers is greater for the women.

[RememberSchiff]

I don't know what new policies came from the National Meeting but I hope there will be more-effective and parent-reassuring Youth Protection policies.  Safety is job one.

 

Hardly a week goes by when there is not a new story about a recent abuse and always the BSA is pitted against the victim. Oh there are still stories about abuse that occurred 10, 20 or more years ago.

 

1. Stop withholding information. No lame excuses. Turn over all information to law enforcement, let them investigate.

2. Get on the side of the child in legal proceeding. Some school districts have succeeded in doing this in cases of teacher abuse of students.

3. Publicly lobby FOR child safety and protection at both the state and National level. (See NY article below).

 

The Atlantic Journal published this after the National Meeting. It will only be freely available for a short time.

http://www.myajc.com/news/local/sex-abuse-cases-boy-scouts-forgo-transparency/T8jGnO4FWXfvFhsf6sA2TJ/

 

In sex abuse cases, Boy Scouts forgo transparency

 

“One thing we’ve found, when we look at all the Boy Scouts cases, is a constant fight against releasing any of the documents,†said Emma Hetherington, director of the University of Georgia Law School’s Wilbanks Child Endangerment and Sexual Exploitation Clinic, founded to assist the survivors of child sexual abuse.

 

They’ve even fought some of the files that have been released publicly from being used in court cases. In doing so, Hetherington said, the Scouts have maintained their interest is in protecting the victims. Disclosure would only discourage people from reporting other abuse because the Scouts could not guarantee confidentiality.

 

“No one is asking them to release the names of the victims,†Hetherington said. “They’re protecting themselves, not the children.â€

 

“If you really want to protect more boys, you release the names of the offenders,†she said. “It’s about holding them accountable and holding the Scouts accountable. This is an organization that led the public to believe their child would be in one of the safest places they could be if they were in Boy Scouts.â€

 

...

Defense lawyer Natalie Woodward, who represents Robb Lawson along with Dunwoody attorney Esther Panitch in the case against Fleming Weaver, said she thinks the Boy Scouts have made some calculations that, while morally questionable, may be strategically wise.

 

“The Boy Scouts have taken the same tactic in all of these cases designed to make it as long and painful a process as possible,†Woodward said. “And if you don’t have the file, you don’t have a case.â€

 

From a public relations standpoint, they appear to have concluded transparency would hurt them more with the public than obstruction, Panitch said.

“They may be doing the smart thing, but it’s not the right thing,†she said.

 

Smart? Not as far as recruiting goes.

 

Switch to New York over the weekend.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/lovett-boy-scouts-fighting-n-y-s-child-victims-act-article-1.3203068

 

Abuse survivors rip Boy Scouts for hiring ex-state senator to lobby against Child Victims Act

 

ALBANY — The Boy Scouts of America has hired a former state senator to lobby against legislation that would make it easier for child sex abuse victims to seek justice as adults.

 

The Boy Scouts this year are paying Dentons US $12,500 a month to lobby on three bills, including against the Child Victims Act.

Former Sen. Craig Johnson, a Long Island Democrat, is a principal for Dentons’ public policy and regulatory practice and one of two people from the firm registered since February to represent the Boy Scouts in Albany, according to filings with the state ethics commission.

 

In an email, a spokesman for the organization confirmed Johnson was hired to work “on a variety of legislative matters in New York that impact youth-serving organizations†— including the Child Victims Act.

 

The spokesman did not respond to a followup email asking why the scouts are fighting the legislation. The organization is said to oppose for financial reasons the push to create a one-year window to revive old sex abuse cases that can’t be pursued under current law.

 

Online records dating back to 2011 show that it is the first time the Boy Scouts have had a lobbyist registered in Albany to work on the issue. The group has had lobbyists for other issues in the past while the Catholic Church has led the charge against the Child Victims Act.

...

“An institution like the Boy Scouts should be more concerned with protecting young children from sexual abuse than protecting their interests by fighting legislation that protects kids and exposes sexual predators,†Robb said in an email. “After all, they call themselves a 'values-based youth development organization,’ one would hope they value the safety of kids, truth and justice!â€

 

Added Michael Polenberg, of Safe Horizon: “So often, an abuser may first pretend to assume a caring or mentorship role in a child's life in order to build trust. Safe Horizon believes that exposing those who sexually abuse children allows parents and organizations to best protect the children who are entrusted into their care — it's deeply disappointing that the Boy Scouts think otherwise."

 

We could have a great inclusive, adventure program but if the BSA is not transparent about abuses and not proactive in legal protection of children, our membership will continue to decline.

 

My $0.02

Edited May 30, 2017 by RememberSchiff