LDS Dropping Senior Youth Scouting

[RememberSchiff]

So the United Methodist Church will have the largest percentage of scout membership?

 

Maybe there will be an increased number of 13yr Eagles in LDS troops and camps sold in Utah.

[Col. Flagg]

What scouting is today is as good as it will ever be. The future is less boy run (youth run), less outdoors, and less personal decision making. 

 

Then Scouting will match what is happening on college campuses perfectly. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[NJCubScouter]

... they pay greatly reduced fees and dues 

 

Do you have a source for that statement?  I guess I assumed that the LDS church paid the same fees to National, per unit, per youth and per adult registrant, as everybody else.  But we all know what happens when you assume...

Edited May 11, 2017 by NJCubScouter

[Snow Owl]

Go to the actual LDS announcement and follow the various links,  Spend some time reading and I think you can read between the lines, this is about coed.  Look at the offering for boys verses those for girls.  The more I read, and the more links I followed, the more I am convinced BSA may be better off without LDS.

[Col. Flagg]

Go to the actual LDS announcement and follow the various links,  Spend some time reading and I think you can read between the lines, this is about coed.  Look at the offering for boys verses those for girls.  The more I read, and the more links I followed, the more I am convinced BSA may be better off without LDS.

 

If they drop all programs in Scouting that would be 20% of the total number of Scouts. Given BSA hasn't been able to stem a 3% or 7% drop in membership, what makes you think they can back fill a 20% drop?

[Ankylus]

Yes, and so it begins. To date, national has chosen the least painful path. They were fools if they thought it would have no consequences. So now it's all pain all the time. I am not inclined to increase my level of commitment in time or in money given the direction of the program, and so they can go find some new sources for those things. 

 

“A coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come.â€

― William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

[Ankylus]

We've got a long way to go to the bottom.

 

 

That's what they said on the Titanic.

[Ankylus]

I am likely a lone voice with my opinion, but I would rather see more civic orgs, and other "friends of" orgs as COs instead of religious groups using bsa as a tool to recruit for their congregation or as their own "youth group". Either the Org holds the Charter to further the mission of BSA, but not using BSA to further your own mission. In my opinion, that is/was the crux of the problem. I am sure I am alone in this opinion, but that is ok. I am used to it.

 

That's all well and good. Out of curiosity, which "civic organizations" and "'friends of' organizations" do you think those might be? I mean, national needs to find these organizations ASAP. It seems to me that if those organizations were inclined to support BSA, they already would be. 

 

And, among the organizations you identify, which will step up sufficiently to fill this hole left by LDS?

 

I don't think anything is wrong with your opinion, except that I really doubt that church's anywhere use BSA for their "youth group". Oh, that, and it flies in the face of reality.

 

But what is the mission of BSA now? That, to me, is the critical question. I don't think even BSA knows. They spout a lot of platitudes, but when the rubber hits the road, they just kind of flounder around.

 

So, what is the mission of the BSA? And which new civic organizations are going to step up now that are not already actively supporting BSA?

[Snow Owl]

Do you have a source for that statement?  I guess I assumed that the LDS church paid the same fees to National, per unit, per youth and per adult registrant, as everybody else.  But we all know what happens when you assume...

The LDS  Scouting Handbook for Church Units  states: 8.2 All registration fees for youth and adults.... are paid directly from Church headquarters to the BSA National Council.  8.3 goes on to say: All fees for chartering, unit liability insurance, and national registration, including fees for those of other faiths....are paid directly from Church headquarters to the BSA National Council.  The Church does not sponsor Scouting for girls or young women.

 

LDS also pays for uniforms, camp fees, handbooks etc.  * I have found conflicting LDS documents on this it appears there is a distinction between what is paid by LSDS at the national level and the local (stake and ward) level

 

I read specific language where LDS paid a negotiated fee to BSA   it is stated in the article "The national BSA normally charges a $24 registration fee for each Scout and adult leader per year. However, a 2015 statement from the three BSA councils in Utah says those fees "are negotiated between the national BSA and the LDS Church. All registration fees are retained at the national BSA level."  but I also have read that a few times previously.

 

I know when I have asked our SE about the LDS units he will not give me any specifics but that is his response to most things unless you are handing him a check.

[Ankylus]

It's my understanding that, prior to this change, the LDS Church required boys in its units to move from a Boy Scout Troop to a Varsity Team when they turned 14 and to a Venturing Crew when they turned 16.  I am presuming that some of these Varsity and Venturing members were/are still working on Star, Life and/or Eagle.  So what the LDS Church seems to be saying is that kids in a Boy Scout troop can stay in the troop past the age of 13, in order continue advancing through the Boy Scout ranks. 

 

One overlooked point is that a lot of LDS boys join BSA because LDS tells them to do so. "This is a good organization for boys, and you should join it." And so they do. Will some of the boys stay in BSA outside of LDS units? Undoubtedly. But I bet most of them will leave for whatever church-approved activity is next promoted by LDS. Most of those boys are gone.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Ankylus

[Snow Owl]

If they drop all programs in Scouting that would be 20% of the total number of Scouts. Given BSA hasn't been able to stem a 3% or 7% drop in membership, what makes you think they can back fill a 20% drop?

 

I don;t think we will fill that drop. We may need to accept a smaller, but maybe better, organization

[Ankylus]

Go to the actual LDS announcement and follow the various links,  Spend some time reading and I think you can read between the lines, this is about coed.  Look at the offering for boys verses those for girls.  The more I read, and the more links I followed, the more I am convinced BSA may be better off without LDS.

 

You may very well be right. But national is not prepared for that and assume LDS will be there.  Scouting may be better off, but it will have to survive LDS' departure, first.

[qwazse]

What is this about?

 

BSA over the past two decades investing in Lion Cubs and STEM scouts and divesting from Venturing and Varsity scouts.

 

Most Mormon Venturing crews were male-only. No problem. But, the venturing program, especially the new ALPS has nothing to offer LDS in terms of the spiritual growth their parishioners expect from their youth. (E.g., there is no national conference of venturing males, there was a disconnect between what LDS women would like to see in their growth and what Venturing had to offer, etc ...) Why pay BSA for a program that detracts from what their parishioners want to see in terms of youth development? Especially one that BSA itself is not heavily invested in? That the youth of the nation have not embraced with enthusiasm?

 

I think we'll still see a lot of Mormon boys working towards eagle. Just skimming their extensive list of "Young Men 14-18 Activities", there remains "Accomplish Rank Advancement" (https://www.lds.org/youth/activities/scouting/boy-scouts/accomplish-rank-advancements?lang=eng). It refers to the http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards.aspx -- a page that makes no mention of venturing awards.

 

The LDS did not drop BSA. BSA dropped venturing for LDS.

[David CO]

The image next to Snow Owl's name is that of a Chartered Organization Representative patch.  I find it ironic that a COR is advocating against the Chartered Organizations.

[Snow Owl]

The image next to Snow Owl's name is that of a Chartered Organization Representative patch.  I find it ironic that a COR is advocating against the Chartered Organizations.

 

Just the opposite I am advocating for the Chartered organizations, the local COs.  I must have missed something.