acco40 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Who owns the troop? Our unit doesn't have CO problems (at least none that are not too big!) but I have an ownership question. If one were to look up our unit's history (started in 1924) one would find that it was chartered by the city men's club (the local high school principal was the Scoutmaster), then it was charted by the Mason's ('32), then the Kiwanis Club ('37), then from 1951 to 1976 the local Episcopal Church. The Troop "folded" until 1989 when it was chartered by a different church (not Episcopal either) for one year and then folded again and then chartered again by the original Episcopal church in 1997 where it continues to this day. The troop number has remained constant. Now, technically, when the CO changed does the BSA then consider it a "new" troop or the same troop with just a different chartering organization? I'm not that interested in who owns the funds or equipment but just how does the BSA perceive (i before e except after c or in perceive?) the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleInKY Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Our troop "number" began in the 1960s, and had the same SM until it folded in the mid 90's. We chartered with a different CO, but same neighborhood, last year. I asked about whether we were considered new or "reborn" and I was told that we were considered new in the eyes of the council. Therefore, we can't do things like wear the 25 year patch that the previous incarnation on the unit had worn. I was told that if it were rechartered within a short timeframe (I think it was 3 years), they would consider it as continuous. Does that answer your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I think that this was discussed at some point in the past. I think that Man O'Steele said that a council could give a "transferred" unit tenure for its previous existence. So if Troop 100's CO shuts down, and a new Troop 100 is born with the same membership but a new CO, they can ask to be considered a continuously chartered unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 The charters are held by the CO not the unit, so the tenure is with the CO not the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 BW, I hear what you are saying but if true why when I ask our council for the troop's records it has multiple chartered organizations (different COs at different times)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 If you look at the charter it has on it some place how many months the chartering organization has been chartered. Just last year we had a group of adults that fell out with their Chartered organization, a local Methodist church. They thought that things would be better if they moved to the American Legion. One of the adults was an officer in the Legion. This bunch of adults are a renegade crowd who seem to be anti everything anti-district, anti Council.There was a lot of ill feeling and in the end the church just wanted to see them gone. I met with the Church council and informed them what thier rights were and let them know that they could re-start a Scouting unit at any time. However they wanted the dust to settle and gave the new unit everything including the unit number. The pack and the troop that left the church and went to the Leigion is looked at as being new. It is a new charter. Sad to say we have not as yet been able to find church members that are willing to take leadership positions in the church in order to re-start the units in the church. If and when we do because of such a long lapse they will also be looked upon as a new unit or new units. While things might change the units that are now with the American Legion are floundering and before too long will close. Due to the leaders that are there we as a key3 can see no way of preventing this and have decided to take no action. Mainly because it would be like trying to teach a pig to sing, it would do no good and only upset this bunch. I have in fact been heard to say that it would be a Quality Drop. Eamonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 When we rechartered, the DE sat us down at roundtable and really stressed the need to get the paperwork in on time, and then he talked us through the how-tos of the paperwork (I was so glad he did that--what a help!). He told us that the clock for tenure would roll back to "0" if we were late. There would have been no change in leadership or youth members, meeting place, etc. but once charter ends, it starts at zero when a new unit forms or an old one gets the paperwork in. Is tenure what you are asking about? Or did I just answer a question that was not asked? p.s. I met a former den mother from this pack--the 70's I believe. She sent the paperwork and awards she and her husband had earned to us for pack history purposes. We apparently moved, but in knowing the current CO's history, the building wasn't around when the pack began. But I haven't a clue as to how this all worked out. I surely wish I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I've read of and known of more than a few troops that have had a series of Charter Organizations. Maybe things were different back then or maybe our reality is different that Bobo Blanco's reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocubdad Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Laurie -- I think your DE may have been reaching to try and create a sense of urgency to file your recharter on time. I can't imagine any Council that would want to count your unit as a drop and then a new unit. As to the original question, as FOG referenced, I think DSteele said before that the Council has some flexibility to transfer unit tenure to a new CO, but that as a normal course a new CO starts with a clean slate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 My guess acco is because the unit # are actually assigned to the CO. Sometimes when a unit folds or a charter drops and the CO does not renew key members of a unit might go to another CO. What happens in the background that you may not be awrare of is the council has to get permission from the old CO for the new one to take on that #.f the original CO agrees than the # can be assigned to a different organization. Technically the unit's tenure begins anew with the new CO. Now that brings us back to why the council keeps the records together. It's just easier for them to retrieve paperwork that way. In the past all unit records were hard copies stored numerically by district. Then they were moved to Fish with hard copy backups. Now they are scanned and stored electronically with a minimum of hard copy records. The electronic copies are transmitted to national, and retrievable on ScoutNet by the local councils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Old Guy Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Fish - Any of numerous cold-blooded aquatic vertebrates of the superclass Pisces, characteristically having fins, gills, and a streamlined body and including specifically:. a. Any of the class Osteichthyes, having a bony skeleton. b. Any of the class Chondrichthyes, having a cartilaginous skeleton and including the sharks, rays, and skates. Fiche - A microfiche. Microfiche - A card or sheet of microfilm capable of accommodating and preserving a considerable number of pages, as of printed text, in reduced form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Eagle Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 So it seems that officially tenure is calculated based on how long that unit has been chartered at a given CO. It also seems that there is some latitude given for local interpretation on such things as the anniversary strips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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