Untrained Leaders Report

[T2Eagle]

I was looking at the my.scouting.org Training Manager, and it is telling me that several of my committee members are untrained.  When I looked to see what training was missing I got this long list:

SCO_400 Scouting Organization for Boy Scouting SCO_401 Role of the Unit Key 3 for Boy Scouting SCO_402 Aims and Methods of Boy Scouting SCO_403 Ideals and Beliefs of Boy Scouting SCO_404 Scoutmaster and Patrol Leaders for Boy Scouting SCO_405 Patrol Method for Boy Scouting SCO_406 Outdoor Programs for Boy Scouting SCO_407 Advancement for Boy Scouting SCO_408 Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_409 Leader Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_410 Patrol Leaders Council Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_411 Troop Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_412 Troop Committee for Boy Scouting SCO_413 Troop Committee Meetings for Boy Scouting SCO_414 Annual Planning for Boy Scouting SCO_415 Intro to Merit Badges for Boy Scouting SCO_530 Journey to Excellence.

 

I've never even heard of most of these, has anyone else seen anything like this?

[Fehler]

That's the module method of training.  They've broken up all the committee/leader online trainings into pieces, so if you took both the Cubmaster training and later took the Den Leader training, you could skip the modules you already covered for the previous position.

[Col. Flagg]

I was looking at the my.scouting.org Training Manager, and it is telling me that several of my committee members are untrained.  When I looked to see what training was missing I got this long list:

SCO_400 Scouting Organization for Boy Scouting SCO_401 Role of the Unit Key 3 for Boy Scouting SCO_402 Aims and Methods of Boy Scouting SCO_403 Ideals and Beliefs of Boy Scouting SCO_404 Scoutmaster and Patrol Leaders for Boy Scouting SCO_405 Patrol Method for Boy Scouting SCO_406 Outdoor Programs for Boy Scouting SCO_407 Advancement for Boy Scouting SCO_408 Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_409 Leader Uniforms for Boy Scouting SCO_410 Patrol Leaders Council Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_411 Troop Meeting for Boy Scouting SCO_412 Troop Committee for Boy Scouting SCO_413 Troop Committee Meetings for Boy Scouting SCO_414 Annual Planning for Boy Scouting SCO_415 Intro to Merit Badges for Boy Scouting SCO_530 Journey to Excellence.

 

I've never even heard of most of these, has anyone else seen anything like this?

 

We had the same issue. They took the Troop Committee Challenge and This is Scouting and broke in down from the two, easy modules to 47,000 tiny modules. Stupid!

 

We what did was this:

• For volunteers who had already completed the two modules, we credited them with all the new modules (which are actually contained in the original two)
• For new volunteers, they need to take the new modules.

We did something similar for SMs.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Eagle94-A1]

It could be worse.  My council never kept track of training records. It was just never put into the system until about 12 years ago, when National pushed it. Long story short, 99.99999% of the district was untrained. That included myself, training chairman, and our district commissioner who served on PTC staff.

 

We did a training survey, verified who did what, and turned in the report to the council to fix.

 

Now I believe the district training chairman can update those records.

[TAHAWK]

It's fifteen minutes in Scoutmaster Position-Specific, which is itself a joke and just under eight minutes in "SCO_405 Patrol Method for Boy Scouting."

 

So BSA pretends to train and the Scouter pretends to be trained.

 

For crying out loud.  

Edited May 10, 2017 by TAHAWK

[qwazse]

...So BSA pretends to train and the Scouter pretends to be trained....

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?

[Back Pack]

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?

A very good idea and easy to implement with computer based training.

[TAHAWK]

You were expecting chapter quizzes from the SM handbook?

No, the topic is not covered there either.  It's been decades since the last coherent description of the  Patrol Method from National.  The elements are still out there in BSA literature, but so are absolutely incorrect statements: [in discussing BSA "Methods"]:  "Patrols are one component of what we call youth-run, or youth-led, troop."

[T2Eagle]

There are some topics that should work well with internet based learning.  Certainly Troop Committee Challenge is straight forward enough to be covered that way.  I am skeptical that SM specific training can be done suffciently well as a passive lecture format.  On the other hand, at least that avoids the passing on of the many scouting urban legends.  Two of my ASMs came back from their training complete with the "You have to be in uniform to be covered by insurance" nonsense

[Col. Flagg]

There are some topics that should work well with internet based learning.  Certainly Troop Committee Challenge is straight forward enough to be covered that way.  I am skeptical that SM specific training can be done suffciently well as a passive lecture format.  On the other hand, at least that avoids the passing on of the many scouting urban legends.  Two of my ASMs came back from their training complete with the "You have to be in uniform to be covered by insurance" nonsense

 

A standard, centralized computer-based learning module would certainly eliminate such training folklore.

[SouthernTierScouter]

I have found the more modular approach has worked out well for us. An adult can do a few videos at a time, that fits their schedule instead of having to commit to an 1.5 session. People are more likely to pay attention in small bite sized time frames as well. And they appear to be generally modern for when they were made.

[fred johnson]

So BSA pretends to train and the Scouter pretends to be trained.

 

That's so so true.  

[Cleveland Rocks]

I get the intent, though, of this training that they're trying to utilize. One of the complaints district and council trainers heard all the time was that people didn't have the time to sit through classroom training, for whatever reason, which was one of the main reasons why leaders weren't taking the training they should.  Now, there's no excuse. You can do the training on your time, at your computer, and it's broken into small chunks so you don't have to devote an hour or two in one stretch if you don't want to.

 

By having you cover every topic in the syllabus with the online training, there's no more instances of an instructor omitting sections or going off the reservation with what is supposed to be taught (see the "you need your uniform for insurance" example above).  When I took SM/ASM classroom training a few years ago, the instructor skipped entire sections because he didn't think it was relevant.  When I took IOLS, what was supposed to be a two-night event was condensed down to less than 24 hours (we didn't even cook dinner even though food was purchased).  The entire time I took both classes, they kept saying all the time, "we'll try to get you out of here as quickly as possible," despite no one indicating that they were in a hurry or had to be somewhere.  The sections that were covered were rushed, and the instructors were almost apologizing that they'll try to get done as quickly as they could.  Same thing happened to me when I took Cub Scout leader training--it was always, "sorry, folks, we'll try to get you out of here soon."

 

I'm here to learn, and I've already blocked out the time in my schedule, so teach me what I need to know!

 

While I appreciate the classroom training because it gives you an opportunity to ask questions to the instructor and to the others taking the class, that doesn't help when the instructors are just mailing it in.  All it does is leave you disenchanted with the process.

[Eagledad]

One aspect of training does have value to the program, it sets a standard of performance. For example, the units in our district over the years got in the habit of thinking that Scoutmaster Signature was only required on MB cards after the scouts was finished with the requirements, not before. The problem it created was the general misunderstanding that Scoutmasters could approve of disapprove the scouts performance of the requirements. We corrected the misunderstanding in training and within three years all units had the same understanding as National.

 

Of course this feeds into TAHAWK's complaint that training doesn't sufficiently teach patrol method. That is because there isn't sufficient material for the instructors to understand the subject that they teaching.

 

Barry

[TAHAWK]

The SM's signature "should" be there before the work begins, but need not be if the MCB OK's the work done (G2A)

 

Since 2015, the SM can refuse to submit a MB on an Advancement Report if he determines the MB could not, in fact, have been earned. (G2A)

E.g.: Personal Management signed off by Area Director at Camp Frontier after candidate started from zero and put in five hours over five days.

 

The material to understand the Patrol Method is still extant and can be found (if one recognizes it), but has not been gathered by BSA in a coherent list, chapter, article, or discussion in decades.

 

In BOY Scouting:

1. The patrol, not the troop,  is the primary setting in which a boy experiences Boy Scouting.

The necessary corollary is that the Scout is to spend most of his Scouting time in a Patrol

context, doing patrol stuff: patrol meetings, patrol hikes, patrol Scoutcraft instruction.

 

2. A patrol is a small, largely self-selected  team of friends who, under the leadership of a Scout they elect,  experience a Scouting program they collectively plan.

 

3.  The troop is . . the youth-led “league†- a boys' league - in which patrol teams play the “game†of Boy Scouting beyond the patrol level,  as planned by the PLC under the chairmanship of the elected SPL.

 

4. Adults play the critical roles of:

     a. Safety officers

     b. Teachers of leadership

     c. Coaches and mentors

     d. Resources

     e. Examples of Values