HELP..Extra camping nights needed

[perdidochas]

I've come across a few instances where Troop Leaders counseled and signed off on merit badges only to have Eagle Applications bounce back from National or Council because the person who signed off on a required merit badge wasn't a registered counselor - that can lead to huge complications.

 

At least with how my council has implemented the program, the above is not possible.  The Advancement reports sent to Council don't include the name of the MBC, and we don't have to turn in parts of Blue cards to Council. I'm certain that National doesn't know who the MBC is on merit badges awarded in our council, as our council doesn't even record that.  

[perdidochas]

My son is 17 and will be 18 the end of the year. As a current life scout, he has one remaining badge to finish, Camping, which he started in 2013. His Eagle project was planned, approved, fund-raised, constructed, and delivered to the beneficiary. He is in the process of the write up and final approval.

 

Our problem is this: our scoutmaster has strictly advocated for "scouting only" all these years. My son is fortunate to be well rounded in many areas of his life and traveled a lot during the summers for baseball. He attended every summer camp and many indoor campouts but not many outings in tents. When we reviewed his advancement records he needs a significant amount of nights to finish the camping badge to meet the 20 night requirement.

 

Years ago, our SM had a falling out with many members of our troop and they left to go to another local troop. We stayed but this SM remains and is very challenging and not very well liked. My son's friends in the other troop, who my son has stayed in touch, have invited him along on campouts to help get the nights needed quicker, including through the summer which is easier on his schedule. Is this allowed?

 

One of our dads is an Eagle and he said troops are always willing to help another troop and it should not be disallowed. Knowing our SM, he will flat out say no, but if I have a concrete rule that says yes my son can get camping with another troop credited then we will go with that . At this stage of the game, we just want to wrap up a very long scouting career. My son started in first grade and is now a junior in high school with so many other things going on that he wants to finally complete this journey.

 

Any help anyone can offer would be appreciated. We have a meeting on Thursday with our council to put in writing exactly the trips he will be going on and as long as I have support that he can camp with other troops we are good to go. If someone knows where the exact rule can be found that he can camp with other troops that would be great. 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm going to be the voice of doom here.  IMHO, your son doesn't like camping, and IMHO, he shouldn't be an Eagle.  Camping is the centerpiece of Scouting, and having less than 20 nights of camping in a tent or under the stars after being in the program for almost 7 years is unacceptable.  Most of the Eagles in our troop have had close to 100 nights of camping.    As others have said, it's up to the MBC, and if the SM is the MBC, your son is out of luck.  

 

His best bet is to get the partial blue card, and find an other MBC who is willing to sign it after his   other nights of camping.  You may have to transfer troops as well, as the SM has to sign off the blue card, even if he's not the  MBC.  The SM is in his rights to refuse to sign a Blue card if he doesnt' think the requirements have been fulfilled.  

 

The other problem is Camping MB requirement #9 B and C

b. On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision. (1) Hike up a mountain where, at some point, you are at least 1,000 feet higher in elevation from where you started. (2) Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles. (3) Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. (4) Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles. (5) Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. (6) Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

 

c. Perform a conservation project approved by the landowner or land managing agency. This can be done alone or with others.

 

 

We have had problems with boys who don't camp much to finish 9b.  

Edited May 8, 2017 by perdidochas

[krikkitbot]

I'm going to be the voice of doom here.  IMHO, your son doesn't like camping, and IMHO, he shouldn't be an Eagle.  Camping is the centerpiece of Scouting, and having less than 20 nights of camping in a tent or under the stars after being in the program for almost 7 years is unacceptable.  

 

Judgemental much? How is that any different from the countless Eagle Scouts who got to 20 nights and stopped going camping after earning their camping merit badge? Should they give back their badge if they don't get tp 100 nights by the time they turn 18?

 

Let this kid get his nights camping. I'm sure he can find a way. Is he OA? Maybe he can Elangomat a couple of weekends and get more nights. Has he gone through NYLT or NAYLE? More opportunities there. 

 

We are here to help scouts achieve their goals even if their goal is to do the minimum required at the last possible moment. We are not here to throw roadblocks because we deem them less than worthy.

[Chadamus]

15+ nights per year is normal (expected??) for many Troops. Some Scouts don't make all events so let's say we half that and round down to 7. Even then after three years you'd be at 20.

 

 

having less than 20 nights of camping in a tent or under the stars after being in the program for almost 7 years is unacceptable.

 

Agreed.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Chadamus

[Col. Flagg]

Judgemental much? How is that any different from the countless Eagle Scouts who got to 20 nights and stopped going camping after earning their camping merit badge? Should they give back their badge if they don't get tp 100 nights by the time they turn 18?

 

Well, in this case, the one Scout has less than 20 nights camping; whereas the countless Eagles got their 20 and stopped. 

[qwazse]

It sounds like he has plenty of long-term nights, but only six of those count.

[Stosh]

It sounds like he has plenty of long-term nights, but only six of those count.

 

Okay students, let's take a look at the math. Let's start with 20 days - a long term camp of 6 days.  That leaves 14 days that need to be considered.  A boy is in scouts for 7 years.  If a weekend campout consists of Friday and Saturday nights, how many weekends per year does the boy need to go on a camping weekend to meet his 20 day requirement?  That's right kids, can we all say ONE!

[qwazse]

Okay students, let's take a look at the math. Let's start with 20 days - a long term camp of 6 days.  That leaves 14 days that need to be considered.  A boy is in scouts for 7 years.  If a weekend campout consists of Friday and Saturday nights, how many weekends per year does the boy need to go on a camping weekend to meet his 20 day requirement?  That's right kids, can we all say ONE!

and as the OP states, on the boy's off-season, his troop was doing indoor overnights.

 

So, in this troop, it was not just a matter of one weekend per year, but the right one weekend per year.

 

I coach my crew into planning nights under canvas (or less) because troops have dumbed down their winter programs.

[RememberSchiff]

Around here, weekend campouts are being replaced with Saturday overnighters - a 7am Sat to 10am Sun activity. Everyone is over-scheduled. Camping is becoming one of the last merit badges  that our Eagle candidates complete.

Edited May 9, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[fred johnson]

 

IMHO, your son doesn't like camping, and IMHO, he shouldn't be an Eagle.  Camping is the centerpiece of Scouting, and having less than 20 nights of camping in a tent or under the stars after being in the program for almost 7 years is unacceptable.  Most of the Eagles in our troop have had close to 100 nights of camping.

Absolutely camping is a center piece of scouting. I'd also like to see something similar such as 21 merit badges with 20 nights of camping or 14 with 50 nights or 12 with 100 nights of camping. I'm not sure what, but my sons each have easily had 100+ nights of camping. My first son probably had 150+ with the troop (every month plus summer camp plus high adventures plus jamboree) and 300+ when you add years of camp staff.

 

But, the requirements are the requirements. It says 20 nights. If you meet the requirements, you are just as much an Eagle scout as anyone else.

 

 

The SM is in his rights to refuse to sign a Blue card if he doesnt' think the requirements have been fulfilled.

Sadly the scoutmaster could use his option to deny the badge if he doesn't think you earned it. But talk with him NOW. If he at all indicates he would use this option, switch troops NOW. Don't wait. Don't put advancement at risk because of a non-supportive leader.

Edited May 10, 2017 by RememberSchiff
replaced scouting with camping

[Stosh]

and as the OP states, on the boy's off-season, his troop was doing indoor overnights.

 

So, in this troop, it was not just a matter of one weekend per year, but the right one weekend per year.

 

I coach my crew into planning nights under canvas (or less) because troops have dumbed down their winter programs.

 

I realize there are many excuses not to get the boys together for a campout with family, sports, church, and other community activities competing for a boys time, but, seriously?  One weekend per year is not a stretch!  If the troop can't make it, why not have a patrol of sports boys that catch an overnighter in their sport off-season?  Summer?  Get an old retired geezer or two that would like a couple of days in the middle of the week to get out of the house and go!  I just can't find it in my own busy schedule with church, Red Cross, Boy Scouts, conservation and community projects that a few of the boys can't figure out how to get a camping weekend in out of 52 options.  Sometimes problem solving goes a long way to build an Eagle's character and dedication.  Excuses do not produce good Eagles.  They need to do more planning in their lives than just a leadership project.

[Eagledad]

The OP didn't ask our personal opinion of what makes a good Eagle, he asked for help on official nights of camping.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

20 days.... end of discussion.

[Ankylus]

Okay students, let's take a look at the math. Let's start with 20 days - a long term camp of 6 days.  That leaves 14 days that need to be considered.  A boy is in scouts for 7 years.  If a weekend campout consists of Friday and Saturday nights, how many weekends per year does the boy need to go on a camping weekend to meet his 20 day requirement?  That's right kids, can we all say ONE!

 

 

Around here, weekend campouts are being replaced with Saturday overnighters - a 7am Sat to 10am Sun activity. Everyone is over-scheduled. Camping is becoming one of the last merit badges  that our Eagle candidates complete.

 

We have a local troop that prides itself on producing "uber scouts". They intentionally limit all weekend camping to one night to purposefully retard scouts progress in earning Camping merit Badge. (They also required Cooking for Eagle years and years before national made it Eagle-required.) What with the over-scheduling of youngsters these days, it did make it more difficult. 

[fred johnson]

We have a local troop that prides itself on producing "uber scouts". They intentionally limit all weekend camping to one night....

Everyone's definition of "uber" scout is different. Seems like one night camping would promote the opposite. Seems like adults creating an excuse to have their Sunday's free.

 

One reason we leave in the morning is so that we don't start thinking about leaving on a main activity day. I guarantee you our troop switches into the mode of "let's pack up" when we realize we will be leaving soon. Heck, I'd be packing as much as possible around 7:30am Saturday.

 

Scouters need to focus less on "patrol method" and "slowing down" or "speeding up" requirements. The right focus is on program. Let's camp. Let's canoe. Let's get out there and do things. Then, let the requirements naturally follow.

Edited May 9, 2017 by fred johnson