Leader retention

[Chadamus]

Several adult leaders in my son's Troop have continued to volunteer long after their son's time as a Scout has ended. This leaves me in the wonderful position of being able to sponge up years worth of experience, stories, advice etc. Is this culture normal?

[RememberSchiff]

I think a "wonderful relationship" largely depends on the personalities and the troop culture. That said your situation is the way Scouting should be.

Edited May 4, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Sentinel947]

We still have two Assistant Scoutmasters that were SM and ASM when I joined the Troop in 2005. This is fairly typical I think.

[Col. Flagg]

Our unit usually keeps retiring SMs around for several years. We have a well-documented transition plan in which the out-going SMs fall to the background, then re-emerge after the SM has transitioned in and established himself. Having the old SMs stick around is good. And no, the Scouts don't go to the old SM more than the new guy.

 

We retain about 30% of our SMs after their son ages out. They hold background roles such as Eagle coach, adult trainer, youth trainer, high adventure organizer (e.g., specialist roles such as climbing, shooting sports, back packing, etc.). We also make sure that as an ASM leaves a role there's at least 1-2 ASMs that can fill their place. This approach has really helped out continuity and ensure that training across all aspects of the program continues.

[blw2]

our units (pack and troop) generally don't retain.  I feel from what I have observed, that once the skin is out of the game the energy level for it drops a bit.

I see that as both good and bad.

The high energy parent will tend to be around too much.

I think we have a few higher ranking scouts that have never or perhaps rarely been on a scouting event without dad

but on the other hand the energy into being involved can be good for the unit, for obvious reasons.

 

We had one dad, that was SM, and also CC for the pack....long after he had any sons in the pack.  I admired his giving volunteer spirit, but he never attended pack meetings of events & we didn't have committee mtgs very frequently either...and therefore he wasn't as effective as an involved parent might have been.

 

I have thought a lot about these SM's that are perpetual.  It can of course be a good thing for the boys.  Thy can offer the experience, and will often be tempered a bit with a bit of "mellow" that comes from experience.

But they also are, in a way, in the way blocking a path for other highly motivated parents that want to be involved and want to make change for the good.  As it is with a troop, there are really only 2 or maybe 3 positions that can affect any real change.  If there are one or more of those key positions filled by someone for 10, 20 years or more.... that is a lot of parents coming and going through that pipe that never have the opportunity to discover that treasure of being a scouter in a key position.

 

Also, I see that some scouts remain in scouting because their parents are scoutmaster, or otherwise involved..... now it may very well be true that this is not a great reason for a boy to be a scout.... but at the same time he's a scout and will hopefully be getting at least some good from it.... now, how many scouts didn't stay in scouting because their parents didn't have an opportunity to fill a key position, but instead were relegated to some floater position in the unit so they didn't stick with or attend like they might have otherwise?

[eagle90]

We have a large troop (50+) and a large Committee (20+).  At least ten of our committee members no longer have scouts in the troop.  These people are invaluable due to their experience, expertise, and impartiality.  They stay because not because they have to, but because they want to, enjoy it, and have fun!  That said, you still have to engage parents with scouts and get and keep them active.  Our committee members not only do "Scouting stuff"" but also socialize outside of Scouting also.

 

Dale

[Col. Flagg]

We had one dad, that was SM, and also CC for the pack....long after he had any sons in the pack.  I admired his giving volunteer spirit, but he never attended pack meetings of events & we didn't have committee mtgs very frequently either...and therefore he wasn't as effective as an involved parent might have been.

 

Great point. We used to have this problem. Once it went away (whole different story on how that was done) those who lived through that era vowed never to be that guy. So now any long-serving folks hang in the background as "oracles of knowledge and history". They chime in when asked, stay out of the SM and TC Chair's roles/duties. They've made it about the unit and not about themselves. Don't get me wrong, these are still high energy volunteers. They are just very, very aware of their presence and not to overshadow the new leaders...but to be there when needed.

 

I liken it to how past US Presidents should act. You retire and fade away, but you are there to answer the call of the sitting President when it comes. You don't second guess the new guy. You don't contradict the new guy. You can offer him private advice, but you are out of the limelight.

[NJCubScouter]

I would estimate that about half of our leaders and committee members remain with the troop after their sons age out, and I am not even counting people who stick around for a few months and then leave.  Our last SM continued in his position for about 8 years after his son aged out.  (The current SM has a son in the troop.)  Our current CC remained as an ASM when his son aged out (about 12 years ago), switched to being a committee member a few years later, and has just become CC.  Our past CC remained in that position for about 6 years after her younger son aged out.  My son aged out about 8 years ago and I have remained on the committee, and I became Advancement Chair after my son aged out.  There are other examples, but the point is that it is common practice in our troop.

[qwazse]

Having been brought up in a troop where the SM had no children of his own, I found it natural that half the MCs all but one ASM had a child in the troop,

 

The notion that an SM would be a scout's dad was somewhat odd until Son #1 crossed over into our current troop.

[MattR]

We have a lot of adults that stick around. Typically they are around as long as there are scouts they know, so a few years. When I started as SM the previous one just left. It would have been nice if he had stayed. The troops I've seen with the biggest problems are the ones where there was not continuity. Some web den leader was talked into being the SM. I'm about to step down and I hope I can still be of some use and keep getting to know the scouts. It really is all about the scouts and without having a connection to them I'd be gone quick.

[4CouncilsScouter]

In the councils I've been a part of, it's really hit or miss. It honestly comes down to culture created in each unit. I've known 100+ boy troops that have grandfathers still volunteering even though their sons have left, and I've known 15 boy troops that retain adults. The common factor in both, in what I've seen, is how the adult leadership treats and values their volunteers.

[blw2]

I can certainly understand the concept of the benefits of a "retired" scouter sticking around.

But I see it as a very dangerous and fine line to dance.... and a positive outcome would depend greatly on the specific personalities involved.

 

When I was in the pack, we had a cadre of several scouters in various positions that were burnt out.  They were coming through with their 2nd or even 3rd sons.  In some ways they were in a rut doing things the way they were always done.  They didn't want to do it any more and would step down and even step away into "inactive" committee positions or even no position at all for a while, but they would sometimes come back and second guess, re-engage, and instead of trying to help they would try or even take back over when things started to change away from what they did....even though they were still burnt out.  They just couldn't let go...

 

I spoke with a scouter once at U of Scouting about pack level positions.  I can't remember the specifics of their unit's practices for all positions., but they had some more or less standard practices such as 

The CM would be a parent I think it was maybe the 1st year WEBELOS den.   This would be a person that had been around a while so they knew the drill.

The ACM would come from the Bear Den, grooming for the CM position next year.

The retired CM would be in the second year WEBELOS den by this time.... still around for a few months to support, suggest, help....

 

I think other key positions had similar methods....

 

I still think the basic idea behind this is good.  The tenure is known up front and is clearly defined and has an end point.  Scouters aren't green and just dumped into major roles without support, etc...  The other ling I like is that it allows others to have a chance, brings in fresh ideas, etc...

We struggled with not having people willing to step up, so on that front this might have been difficult without enough volunteers to keep things moving, but I wonder if this was set as the expectation, things might have been a whole lot less "stale' and this might have actually worked out

[Col. Flagg]

I can certainly understand the concept of the benefits of a "retired" scouter sticking around.

But I see it as a very dangerous and fine line to dance.... and a positive outcome would depend greatly on the specific personalities involved.

 

I agree. If you get someone who can't let go, they could upset that balance. Thankfully we have not had the issue. If anything, the former SMs have been huge supporters of the new SM, reminding other adults to sit back and let the new SM work his magic. The old SMs know how hard it is to have adults stepping in and contradicting their direction, so they will do what they can to have the back of the new SM. Any ASM or adult that cannot handle that role would be asked to find something else to do. Never had that issue yet.

[jwest09]

I also agree - and have run into that problem on a few occasions.  People who stick around long after their children have moved on, bring a wealth of experience, put in countless hours and generally do a good job... But are so toxic to work with, they drive away anyone new from contributing in that same area.  Its easy for them to develop a martyr complex, too: "I've been doing this for 30 years, because no one else is willing to!"  Well, yeah, but that's only because no one's willing to do the job with you stepping on their toes and jumping down their throat every time they handle something differently than you personally would!  Its a tricky situation, needing to potentially tell someone doing the work of three people that they need to take a step back, especially when the results of their work are effective.  But when you counter that with the knowledge that they've driven away 5 additional people interested in helping in that same area... it's a tough problem to solve.

 

On the other hand, some of my personal heroes are those who, over the course of nearly half a century involved in Scouting, have learned how to be effective in their position, offering the right amount of support, feedback, insight, but also knowing when to step back and let a situation run its course.

[blw2]

......  Its easy for them to develop a martyr complex, too: "I've been doing this for 30 years, because no one else is willing to!"  Well, yeah, but that's only because no one's willing to do the job with you stepping on their toes and jumping down their throat every time they handle something differently than you personally would! .....

true enough..... true enough....  this edges on my experience

 

often it's not quite that toxic though.... which also nudges up against what I experienced.... nobody else is willing to do the job, only because the hole is already filled.  No hole, no reason to step up and fill it.