Push for Coed Scouting

[qwazse]

So, I was mistaken.

... The young lady in question wants opportunities. Well, look at her green shirt. I have a little book that lists the very distinguished awards that can be earned with it. Even if her petition fails, she has several great paths to success ahead of her. I look forward to seeing her as an officer in the Northeast Region.

Her uniform was not Venturing, it was the scout uniform of Scouts Canada (their Venturer uniform was blue), probably taken before she turned 15. (Although, I am not clear about when that transition happens.) The Chief Scout award would have been earned then. So, old news.

 

For Venturer Scouts, "The Canadian Path" (the organizations name for their cub-through-venturer progression) includes a personal growth model not unlike the BSA's recent ALPS model which includes, but is not limited to, the Queen's Scout award as well the Duke of Edinburgh International Award (to which youth from anywhere in the world may also apply).

[ScouterNorth]

As a Canadian Scouter, I'll jump in to clarify a few things...

 

The Canadian Path is the brand new, redesigned program that has the goal of stopping, and hopefully reversing, the current decline in membership.

 

Under this new system each section (Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Venturers, Rovers) now has their own Top Section Award.

 

Beavers = North Star Award (new)

Cubs = Seeonee Award (new)

Scouts = Chief Scout Award

Venturers = Queen's Venturer Award

Rovers = Canadian Rover Scout Award (new)

 

For the Chief Scout Award specifically, the requirements have been greatly reduced and given a large degree of flexibility.  So much flexibility in fact, that you can achieve this award without spending a single night at camp or hiking a single mile on the trail.  In fact you can get all the top section awards without camping.  That being said, in order to do that you will have to become quite skilled in another outdoor skill (paddling, SCUBA, First Aid, Rock Climbing etc.)

 

With regards to the original topic of the thread, co-ed Scouting, I'm of two minds.   On one hand I think it's important for girls to learn outdoor skills and the Canadian Girl Guide program is not good at this.  Our group has a steady stream of girls making the transition because in their own words "The Guide program sucks.  It's too girly-girl".  I'm happy to teach them what I know.

 

On the other hand, the boys definitely behave differently around the girls.  They take fewer risks, do fewer foolish things (and therefore learn less) and their rough-housing and good natured ribbing of each other definitely gets toned down.  I have had some of the boys say that it would be nice if they could have a "boys only" camp where they could let loose.

 

It's important for boys to have their own spaces and we've been losing some to sports teams where they are guaranteed to be boys only.  As far as I can tell, sports teams are the only place left where boys can be guaranteed to have their own space.

[NJCubScouter]

On the other hand, the boys definitely behave differently around the girls.  They take fewer risks, do fewer foolish things (and therefore learn less) and their rough-housing and good natured ribbing of each other definitely gets toned down.  I have had some of the boys say that it would be nice if they could have a "boys only" camp where they could let loose.

 

That's interesting because my guess, based on occasional observation of particularly 11-14-year-old boys in an "all-boys" setting with occasional visits by teenage girls, would be the opposite - MORE risk-taking and foolish behavior.  That is one of the reasons I have expressed serious reservations about "coed Scouting."  But maybe we are talking about different kinds of "risks."  

[qwazse]

Thanks @@ScouterNorth, I had a bit of a time navigating your organization's website.

Best of luck with that new program!

 

That's interesting because my guess, based on occasional observation of particularly 11-14-year-old boys in an "all-boys" setting with occasional visits by teenage girls, would be the opposite - MORE risk-taking and foolish behavior.  That is one of the reasons I have expressed serious reservations about "coed Scouting."  But maybe we are talking about different kinds of "risks."

 

NJ, I think there is a boundary age around 10 to 12 of sorts where boys become more reserved around girls they know; meanwhile they are idiots around "new girls". Then another milestone is passed where they figure out the kind of character they want to be, and they learn to be steadfast. That age is somewhere between 13 and 63.

[tyke]

If this is to be believed coed us scouting may be getting nearer

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scout-leaders-discuss-offering-more-opportunities-girls-n754541

Edited May 4, 2017 by RememberSchiff
I merged two topics

[RememberSchiff]

Boy Scout Leaders to Discuss Offering More Opportunities for Girls

Pete Williams, NBC

 

Leaders of the Boy Scouts of America will take the first tentative steps Thursday toward considering whether to add more opportunities for girls in an organization that has been primarily for boys since it was founded 107 years ago, according to scouting officials.

 

The subject will be discussed at a meeting of chapter representatives and other leaders at the organization's headquarters in Irving, Texas, the officials said.

 

"It's a meeting on how to meet the needs of today's families, which include dual earners and single-parent households," said Effie Delimarkos, spokeswoman for the Boy Scouts of America.

 

An official described the meeting as a chance to hear from the scouting community about whether to move ahead on creating more places for girls to participate.

 

The subject of admitting girls to the BSA has been a hot topic on social media and websites devoted to scouting.

"BSA has been awesome for my son. It would be awesome for my daughter, too," said one parent.

But another said, "Co-ed does cut out the very heart of the program ... which is to help BOYS become better MEN."

 

After decades of refusing to adjust its membership rules, change has been in the air for the Boy Scouts. The current president of the organization, AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, told its annual meeting last year that it must adapt in order to grow.

 

"We have one purpose — develop leaders by teaching them the scout law. That's the end game. And I believe very strongly that we're going to have to change if we're going to succeed in that purpose," he said, in a 12-minute address that offered no specifics about how scouting should change.

 

A request to AT&T for comment from Stephenson for this story was referred to Boy Scout headquarters.

....

 

Source:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scout-leaders-discuss-offering-more-opportunities-girls-n754541

Edited May 4, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Sentinel947]

Ladies and Gents, its coming whether we like it or not.

[ianwilkins]

But another said, "Co-ed does cut out the very heart of the program ... which is to help BOYS become better MEN."

 

 

Source:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scout-leaders-discuss-offering-more-opportunities-girls-n754541

 

Just to say, that quote was from page two of this very thread. How very circular.

[RememberSchiff]

Just to say, that quote was from page two of this very thread. How very circular.

@@The Latin Scot

[NJCubScouter]

I'm not sure this really means anything.  So there are going to be discussions at National.  My impression has been that National has been discussing this issue for well over a year.  This just seems like more discussion.

[Chadamus]

But NJ we must talk about the fact that they're talking! ;p

Edited May 4, 2017 by Chadamus

[Col. Flagg]

National sent out a survey recently, so you know they are testing the waters...and then will do the opposite of what the majority want.

 

In the article you have a local Scout leader remarking about how single parents want to take their kids to one place, rather than many. I hope this type of dysfunctional thinking isn't the basis for making a decision to open up Boy Scouts to girls. I know this varies, but in our area the number of single parents with more than one child is such a small percentage of the population.

 

BSA keeps missing the mark. In business, you don't adjust your best product to go after new customers that don't buy your product often. You focus your money to go after MORE customers that fill the profile of your BEST customers. That's Marketing 101.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[NJCubScouter]

But NJ we must talk about the fact that they're talking! ;p

 

Right.  What I think actually happened here is that a media outlet became aware of a discussion that was going to happen at a meeting and, without knowing or understanding the background, sees it as a "new" issue, when it really isn't.  Then someone posts the article here and people get wound up over it.  Again.  And again, and again.  It may be that something really does happen soon, but I'll believe it when I see it.  As I have said before, I remember about 45 years ago, when I was a Scout, hearing that the BSA was "discussing" merging with the GSUSA.  Maybe they actually were discussing it, maybe they weren't.  What I do know is that it hasn't happened yet nor has any other version of the "coed rumor" (in terms of Boy Scouts and/or Cub Scouts) become reality.

[Eagle94-A1]

On the TALK ABOUT SCOUTING Facebook page, someone mentioned how their SE told them Scouting will be going coed in a pilot program in 2018.

 

I think this is a done deal.

 

 

 

EDITED: I think this quote is very ironic:

 

<i>A spokesman for the Girl Scouts of the USA said it could not speculate on the decisions of another organization but said their single-gender environment for girls offers unique benefits. "Research supports our premise that many girls learn best in an all-girl, girl-led, and girl-friendly environment where their specific interests and needs are met," said Andrea Bastiani Archibald, a psychologist who helps guide the Girl Scouts. "We are unparalleled in our ability to build great female leaders who contribute to society at every level," she said.</i>

 

Why do I think it's ironic, because research also shows that boys learn best in an all-boy, boy-led, and boy-friendly environment.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Eagle94-A1

[NJCubScouter]

On the TALK ABOUT SCOUTING Facebook page, someone mentioned how their SE told them Scouting will be going coed in a pilot program in 2018.

 

I think this is a done deal.

 

As I said, I'll believe it when I see it.  If everything that everyone has ever reported that "their SE said" or that "the Director of such-and-such said at Philmont" actually happened, the BSA would be a much different place.  As for a "pilot program", so if the Lion Cub program is a model, does that mean that a few councils will have their packs and troops admit girls, and then over a period of years this will be expanded to more councils?  (And even now, after several years, the Lions program is still not nationwide, or at least I don't think it is.)  And will there be a local option, or will every pack and troop be "coed"?

 

I know you don't know the answers to these questions, based on what some person posted on a Facebook page based on what their SE supposedly said, I'm just making the point that without the details, and without an official statement that this is happening, it is all just rumor.