new scoutmaster Question

[Back Pack]

We have a zero tolerance policy.  We would kick him out.

Agreed. This is not Eagle behavior.

[T2Eagle]

We have a zero tolerance policy.  We would kick him out.

I'm curious, do you think you catch every scout who's guilty, or is getting caught the real transgression?

[David CO]

I'm curious, do you think you catch every scout who's guilty, or is getting caught the real transgression?

 

Neither.  

[Back Pack]

So the drug user gets empathy. The Eagle candidate who may have lacked leadership gets crucified? I swear.

[qwazse]

So the drug user gets empathy. The Eagle candidate who may have lacked leadership gets crucified? I swear.

I see your point. Users aren't showing leadership. Dealers on the other hand .... Edited May 4, 2017 by qwazse

[Stosh]

My concern would mainly be in the area of 2nd offense on this issue.  I don't mind helping young people address the bumps along the way as they mature into adulthood, but when those efforts are useless then it's time to move on to a more receptive individual.

 

There's a bit of me that always wants to give someone a second chance, benefit of the doubt, etc.  But after 4 years this lad has not figured it out.  If the scout is on the verge of aging out, that would put his first offense at <13 years of age.  That's pretty young to be involved in the drug culture, and now the evidence indicates he's still there 4 years later.

 

It doesn't appear he wishes to make any major changes in his lifestyle and that in itself tells me he wouldn't be a good candidate for Eagle.

[scoutldr]

Bottom line is, the Scout does not get an Eagle Board of Review without your endorsement.  You as Unit Leader have to sign your name on the Eagle Application, as does the Unit Committee Chair. Unless he appeals to Council, that is.  I would go with my gut.  I would be sympathetic and try to get him help and support.  But Eagle Scout is now off the radar.  He had a chance to repent and go down a different path.  He chose not to.  His choice, not yours.  If you relent and turn a blind eye, you are making a mockery of the Eagle Award and everyone, down to the youngest Tenderfoot, will get a clear message.

[JosephMD]

Ask yourself this question:  What requirement did the scout fail to complete?

 

2: As a Life Scout, demonstrate Scout Spirit by living the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Tell how you have done your duty to God, how you have lived the Scout Oath and Scout Law in your everyday life, and how your understanding of the Scout Oath and Scout Law will guide your life in the future. List on your Eagle Scout Rank Application the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf, including parents/guardians, religious (if not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference), educational, employer (if employed), and two other references.

 

I like to look at it his way, many of the scouts we have don't live the scout oath and law 24/7/365, and neither do us adults.  The requirement doesn't say that you must never not demonstrate scout spirt by violating a point of the scout oath and scout law.

 

6: While a Life Scout, participate in a Scoutmaster conference.

 

I suppose you could just refuse to do a scoutmaster conference, if you think that is the right thing to do.  I don't think I would ever deny a scout a scoutmaster conference if I were a scoutmaster.

 

 

I always turn back to what the requirements say, not what I think.  I think drug use is a terrible decision and is very destructive to one's self and the community at large.  Now, there are those that disagree with me that a little weed or a little coke never hurt anybody, and, there might be some truth to that statement, but pretty much everyone with a drug addiction problem starts with a little of this and a little of that.

 

One of these days, I will be a scoutmaster, and I hope I never have to deal with this situation.

 

The bottom line is if you don't sign it, an appeal will most likely be accepted if he has done all of the merit badges and can show some documentation on his project.

[Col. Flagg]

Folks, this Scout did not just break the Oath and Law, he broke THE LAW....TWICE!!! Let's not hide behind some convoluted interpretation of whether he met the requirements or not. His conduct was more than inconsistent with that of the Oath and Law. He not only broke on of the 12 Laws, he broke multiple ones...TWICE!!!!

 

@@scoutldr said, be compassionate and help the young man, but entertaining Eagle in the face of all of this? That's a mockery of what Eagle is supposed to be.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[jwest09]

We have a zero tolerance policy.  We would kick him out.

 

An approach I try to take - Its possible not to tolerate something, without kicking the boy out (and thus casting him outside your sphere of hopefully-positive influence.)  Not sure why drug use is an unforgivable sin for so many among us, especially considering the harmful side effects of exiling an already at-risk youth on account of what may be a small transgression.

[Col. Flagg]

Not sure why drug use is an unforgivable sin for so many among us, especially considering the harmful side effects of exiling an already at-risk youth on account of what may be a small transgression.

 

One can forgive him and help him without rewarding him with an Eagle BOR. Most certainly help the kid. Just don't reward him for twice violating the law, his Oath and the many Scout Laws.

[David CO]

An approach I try to take - Its possible not to tolerate something, without kicking the boy out (and thus casting him outside your sphere of hopefully-positive influence.)  Not sure why drug use is an unforgivable sin for so many among us, especially considering the harmful side effects of exiling an already at-risk youth on account of what may be a small transgression.

 

Drug use is not an unforgivable sin, but it is not a small transgression either.  

[jwest09]

David CO - I agree that it may not be a small transgression (but we still don't know the specifics surrounding this incident).  The question I have is, what would the scout need to do to deserve forgiveness, to earn back your trust, and to qualify himself for rank advancement?  And how can he do those things once you've expelled him from the troop?

Edited May 4, 2017 by jwest09

[David CO]

Those are three very different questions. I am not the one who dispenses forgiveness. For forgiveness, the boy needs to repent and make a good confession.  I am not a priest, so I don't do that.

 

He will never earn my trust.  Druggies can't be trusted.

 

For rank advancement, he needs to join another troop.  My unit is not a sanctuary troop for drug users.

[jwest09]

I see.  Obviously splitting hairs over semantics isn't helpful here, but you're describing what I mean by an "unforgivable sin," in a colloquial sense.  If you can't forgive the child, if there's literally nothing the young man can do to earn back your trust, if you choose to label him as a "druggie," and under no circumstances allow him to participate in the growth of the advancement method under your guidance and mentorship, that's quite serious.

 

Its your business and your right to treat people that way, I just find it surprising. And, in my own opinion, its not necessary or helpful.