Catholic Diocese boots out GS

[Stosh]

  I don't "officially" endorse the indiscriminate use of discrimination.  There's a reason why the root words are similar.  Indiscriminate means without reason, cause, or fair/just judgment, just random application of harm to others is not appropriate.

 

Discriminate, incriminate, indiscriminate, criminal, all come from the root word crime, and how we use words to imply what that means, i.e. the judgment of guilt.

 

You cannot use our facilities because we don't like you and what you are doing, reflects a different judgment than we do not allow the use of our facilities for such activities because it goes against what we have judged to be inappropriate.  One is a judgement against the person, the other is a judgment against the activity.  Sometimes it's difficult to tell discrimination because of this.  Other times it it explicitly obvious. 

 

When I commented we all discriminate, it means we all judge, sometimes with due justice (discriminate) sometimes merely randomly without justice (indiscriminate).  Sometimes we judge the person, sometimes the activity.  And sometimes we even make the judgment BEFORE even meeting the person or experiencing the activity (pre-judice).

 

Judicial process of thought and reason are acceptable to me,  Pre-judicial processes and reason are not.  Indiscriminate rules are a problem for me, but discriminate rules have thought and reason behind them.

 

Sometimes we need to actually think about what we are saying rather than just spouting out words that sound good, might be socially PC, but have a meaning far different than what we think it means.

[David CO]

I see a Catholic youth (youth/family) program forming that does not involve a generic,outside youth program which may be doing less than hoped, from the Church viewpoint, to boost youth involvement in the Church.

 

A hard fact, there are fewer Catholic children attending a Catholic school than there are Cub Scouts in the US. Our local elementary/secondary school closes this June. My younger son's weekend Confirmation classes resemble Scouting in terms of activities, service requirements, and time commitment (more reading/study). More and more time conflicts.  Back in the day when more Catholics attended Catholic schools and Catechism classes, the Church taught religion and the troop taught scouting with the Scout Oath and Law as the bridge.

 

http://www.ncea.org/NCEA/Proclaim/Catholic_School_Data/Catholic_School_Data.aspx

 

My $0.01

 

I am seeing the same thing in my town.  Over the past 5 years, our Catholic schools have lost about a third of their enrollment. The grade school and middle school have been consolidated.

[RememberSchiff]

Without an increasing number of first generation, non-Catholic students, our local Catholic high school would close. Their parents prioritize paying the tuition for a safe and disciplined academic environment that is found less often in public schools.

[TAHAWK]

The predominate denomination of the students at our east-side Lutheran high school is Baptist, despite which the Lutheran Church continues the subsidized operation.

[MattR]

I am seeing the same thing in my town.  Over the past 5 years, our Catholic schools have lost about a third of their enrollment. The grade school and middle school have been consolidated.

That's a dramatic drop. Any idea why?

 

Is it possible that it's similar to the reason why there are fewer scouts?

 

I found this about Catholic schools: In the 10 years since the 2006 school year, 1,511 schools were reported closed or consolidated (19.9%), while 314 school openings were reported. Due to different definitions used by dioceses for consolidations, closings and their transitions into new configurations, along with actual new schools opened, the actual decrease in number of schools since 2006 is 1,064 schools (14.0%). The number of students declined by 409,384 (17.6%). The most seriously impacted have been elementary schools.

 

I'm not at all picking on Catholics, it's just that I see a similarity between why a parent would put a kid in a catholic school and boy scouts. I'm just wondering if whatever is driving parents away from Catholic schools is similar to what's driving parents away from scouts. We've seen numerous packs fold in the past year. It's usually a case of nobody wants to volunteer. That says to me that it's become too expensive (money or time) or less important.

 

I would like to know why there were 314 school openings.

[David CO]

Scandals.

[RememberSchiff]

I'm just wondering if whatever is driving parents away from Catholic schools is similar to what's driving parents away from scouts.

 

I would like to know why there were 314 school openings.

Agree about scandals. Cost too. Are vouchers coming? Another is a lack of services and accommodations (transportation, IEP and 504's). Around here IMO, Catholic education is one size fits all.

 

Two or more schools close and a new school is opened. Kansas City closed two suburban elementary schools and opened an urban school.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article57111728.html

Edited May 8, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Chadamus]

As a parent faced with a $10,000+ tuition decision in a few months, I can say cost can be a major reason for some.

[Peregrinator]

The scandals have certainly played a part, but Catholic school enrollment has been declining for decades. Tuition goes up, enrollment declines. It's a never-ending cycle. And frankly, there is not much reason to pay tuition so your kids can learn the same thing in Catholic school that they would learn in public school.

[Chadamus]

The Catholic school curriculum is significantly different than the one offered by public schools in my neck of the wooks. Cursive penmanship to give one minor example. A religious education is a major example. Your mileage may vary obviously.

[CalicoPenn]

http://www.girlscoutsaz.org/en/about-our-council/news/2015/pope_francis_meets_w.html

 

Thanks!!

[RememberSchiff]

The scandals have certainly played a part, but Catholic school enrollment has been declining for decades. Tuition goes up, enrollment declines. It's a never-ending cycle. And frankly, there is not much reason to pay tuition so your kids can learn the same thing in Catholic school that they would learn in public school.

 

Good points. Our Catholic schools still do speed arithmetic drills (100 problem sheets), memorize multiplication tables, no calculators,..

 

For my older son, Catholic class size was smaller from elementary school through high school (12-16 Catholic vs 28 public). Private schools have a huge discipline advantage - they do not have to take or keep your child enrolled. Don't follow the rules - good bye. Our lay teachers were all ex-public teachers who took a huge pay cut to teach in a safer environment.

 

His high school took an enrollment hit when the sports director was fired. He was more popular and "winning" than the whole administration, BUT he hired great coaches who cursed and maybe did some recruiting, like Notre Dame. Now the high school no longer had a sports director who knew all the college AD's on the East Coast. No sense paying Catholic tuition if a college sports scholarship is less likely.

 

My $0.02

Edited May 8, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[TAHAWK]

"And frankly, there is not much reason to pay tuition so your kids can learn the same thing in Catholic school that they would learn in public school."

But some people live in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Newark, St. Louis, Jackson, Mobile, Fresno, Birmingham. Nevada  . . . .

 

So they don't learn the same thing(s).    
 

[Eagle94-A1]

One reason why those number dropped could be Hurricane Katrina. The New Orleans metro areas not only had the largest number of private schools in the US, but also the largest number of Catholic schools.  Lot of people who moved out of the NO metro area never returned. I know my mom never did return, and my old troop died when most of the leaders and Scouts did not return.

 

Regarding public versus Catholic, it depends on where you are located. I know in New Orleans, you want to go to Catholic school, even if you are not Catholic. My mom worked for the public school system, and sent me to Catholic school. I knew a bunch of folks whose parents were teachers in the public school system, but they attended Catholic schools. Heck, both parents of one girl I dated in high school were PRINCIPALS (emphasis) in the public school system, but sent both her and her sister to Catholic school.

 

Regarding discipline, That is a fact. Some of the things my mom had to deal with at work would not have been tolerated at my school. And the principals acted as if their hands were tied. And at the high school I attended, we had folks waiting for teaching positions to open up. One of my friends from college took a significant pay cut to teach at my alma mater.

 

I know one of the things that made my Catholic high school affordable was fundraising. Parents and alumni gave what they could. I would not have been able to go to my HS if it wasn't for financial aid. In fact the highlight of my senior year was being able to  thank the alumnus who gave the endowed scholarship I was on.

[David CO]

The scandals have certainly played a part, but Catholic school enrollment has been declining for decades. Tuition goes up, enrollment declines. It's a never-ending cycle. And frankly, there is not much reason to pay tuition so your kids can learn the same thing in Catholic school that they would learn in public school.

 

Are you talking about common core?