"10 kinds of wild animals (birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, mollusks)"

[TAHAWK]

This is a kind of plant because it has leaves and plants have leaves.

This is a different kind of leaf.  That's two.

This is a nut.  That's three

This is a different nut. That's four.

This is a seed. That's five.

This is a different seed. That's six.

This is bark.

Different bark.

Wood

A root.

Each came from a different plant in the woods.

Evidence of 10 different kinds of wild plant ??  Don't have to identify any of them as that would be "identify"

Edited April 25, 2017 by TAHAWK

[Back Pack]

Identify= @@TAHAWK's name is x, he's a x year old man living in x with his wife, 10 kids and likes ice cream.

 

Not

 

Identify= @@TAHAWK is a semi-gelatinous carbon based life form of unknown origin.

[qwazse]

This is where seasoned scouters keep the BS out of the BS of A.

 

Tell your word-smithy IOLS students: "Which scout would you hire to weed your lawn or garden (or for some, vineyards and orchards)? The one who shows you all the different plants he's pulled from it, or the one who's identified the desired from undesired?"

 

Also, this is where you point out the importance of youth sign-offs. Controversies like this should be reviewed by the PLC who should then decide what the uniform course of action within their troop should be. Remind your students that, were they earning this rank from their SPL while in service to their troop, their search for the lowest common denominator would be a source of derision among their youth for years to come.

 

P.S. - My camporees growing up involved scavenger hunts of, among other things, specific plants. We therefore memorized the pictures of all of the plants named in the BSHB. Our commissioner stumped us sorely when he added "hawkweed" to the list. We were the "college town" troop, and our patrols had to concede defeat to some "country bumpkins" on that one. Not our proudest moment.

[TAHAWK]

Identify= @@TAHAWK's name is x, he's a x year old man living in x with his wife, 10 kids and likes ice cream.

 

Not

 

Identify= @@TAHAWK is a semi-gelatinous carbon based life form of unknown origin.

 

You raise a different but also important issue: how much information is required to "identify"?   Spruce.  Alberta Spruce.  Dwarf Alberta Spruce.  Surely, as I have opined, not the Latin Genus and Species.

 

 

Try this on for size.  If you do not in some sense "identify" how do you know you have sign of ten different "kinds"?   The leaf, bark, and nut may come from a single "kind."

 

 

4.2.1.2 The Scout Is Tested

The unit leader authorizes those who may test and pass the Scout on rank requirements. They might include his patrol leader, senior patrol leader, an assistant unit leader, another Scout, or the unit leader himself.

 

BSA, Guide to Advancement

Edited April 25, 2017 by TAHAWK

[Col. Flagg]

I think most units I have seen treat "identify" as knowing common names and differentiation, such as pecan tree, peach tree, red oak, etc. I have not seen units use genus and species. Same with animals. Domestic animals are out. Squirrel is okay but they usually teach the difference between fox squirrel and grey squirrel.

 

@@TAHAWK, if you are looking for standardization on this subject I don't think you will get it. The language of the requirements do not allow standardization of teaching.

 

If you are looking for options, you will certainly get plenty of those.

[Stosh]

All from the genus Quercus

 

Red Oaks

  Northern Red Oak

  Southern Red Oak

  Black Oak

  Pin Oak

  Scarlet Oak

  Shumard Oak

  Cherry Bark Oak

  Nuttall Oak

  Turkey Oak

  Blackjack Oak

 

White Oaks

  White Oak

  Burr Oak

  Overcup Oak

  Post Oak

  Oregon White Oak

  Swamp White Oak

  California White Oak

 

Chestnut Oaks

  Swamp Chestnut Oak

  Chestnut Oak

  Chinkapin Oak

 

Willow Oaks

  Live Oak

  Willow Oak

  Water Oak

  Laurel Oak

  Shingle Oak

[CalicoPenn]

I have no problems with Scouts.  It's the adults at training who come with lists of questions about requirements.  Three weeks to the next round.

 

Some here have said ignore the requirements - usually by substituting better, logical words that could or should have been said but clearly were not.  That is not an option for me, at least, when training Scoutmasters and SAs.

 

Some have said interpret words this way or that.  If native means naturalized in historic times and wild means (individual animals) that are not pets, the biggest quibble goes away.  (After all, the "Eastern Coyote" is supposedly a coyote-domestic dog hybrid.)

 

No one here has really dealt with "identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds"   That has been brought up three prior years running by someone at training.  Many adults seems focused on finding the easiest possible way for a Scout to get rank.

 

CP, Mollusca is not a Kingdom.  Animalia is.  But I simply tell them this is not about binomial nomenclature or formal taxonomy.  I only brought it up because whoever wrote the requirement knows far less than I do about classification and put a phyla on the same level as classes.   I haven't dealt with classification since I was a lab assistant in Zoology as a history major (only one willing to deal with snakes) in 1964.

 

I don't believe I said Mollusca is a kingdom - I believe I said Mollusks are part of the Animal Kingdom - but perhaps I wasn't clear.

 

The requirement is to identify or show evidence of 10 different kinds of animals - the rest of that sentence is just filler really.  Let's think about this from an 11 year-olds perspective.  Animal means anything within the animal kingdom - whether its a phylum, a class, and order, a family, a genus or a species.  This is a second class requirement - it's not Zoology Merit Badge (oh right, the BSA discontinued the Zoology merit badge).   Think the common usage of the words, not the scientific uses.

 

As for 10 kinds - you need 10 kinds.  A white-tailed deer is one kind.  An American Robin is one kind.  An Eastern Coyote (which appears to be a genetic mixture of Western Coyote, Western and Eastern Wolves (whatever "Western" and "Eastern" wolf means - Timber Wolf?  Red Wolf?  Mixtures?)) and Domestic Dog is one kind.  So what is a kind?  For most of us, it's 11-year old speak for Species.  Here's the thing though - unless the BSA has defined it in the BSHB, then you just have to rely on people's common sense.  If a Scout unit wants to accept Bear, Bird, Rabbit, Deer, Insect, Clam etc., which can encompass dozens to thousands of individual species, we just have to accept it.

 

I think the same goes for native plants.  If you follow the definition of native that most conservation groups and government organizations use, then you're essentially limited to the plants that existed here before European settlers got here.  If that's the case, then your standard field is likely to be out of bounds (there is a reason they are often called Eurasian meadows) because almost all of the species in them are not-native.  For training purposes, I think you just have to spell out that at its most basic level, native means not-domesticated - it means no food crops, no flowers planted in gardens, no lawn grass and hope for the best because this isn't Botany Merit Badge (oh wait, the BSA eliminated that merit badge too).

 

When training, I think we need to start emphasizing more that people need to start thinking like 10-15 year olds.  Its really not about the easiest way to reach rank - it is about not reading more in to the requirements than is stated.

[NJCubScouter]

As for 10 kinds - you need 10 kinds.  A white-tailed deer is one kind.  An American Robin is one kind.  An Eastern Coyote (which appears to be a genetic mixture of Western Coyote, Western and Eastern Wolves (whatever "Western" and "Eastern" wolf means - Timber Wolf?  Red Wolf?  Mixtures?)) and Domestic Dog is one kind.  So what is a kind?  For most of us, it's 11-year old speak for Species.  Here's the thing though - unless the BSA has defined it in the BSHB, then you just have to rely on people's common sense.  If a Scout unit wants to accept Bear, Bird, Rabbit, Deer, Insect, Clam etc., which can encompass dozens to thousands of individual species, we just have to accept it.

 

 

I think bear, rabbit, deer and clam all qualify as a "kind" when viewed from an 11-year-old viewpoint, and I believe our troop would accept those.  Same for coyote and wolf, without the regional variants.  I think "bird" is too general, but "robin" or "hawk" is fine.  Similarly, I think "fish" is too general but "bass" or "trout" are fine, even though there are a number of different species of each.  So I don't think "species" is the key.  I don't think "kind", as used in the requirement, necessarily means any particular level on the taxonomic scale.  I think it will usually be somewhere in the genus/family range, maybe sometimes a species, as Wikipedia is telling me that all coyotes are the same species.

[TAHAWK]

I would pick almost anyone here to do the rewrite.  Council?  Not so much: "The Council reguires that BALOO-trained leaders are also trained in Wouth Protection. The BSA reguires Wouth Protection training for all registered volunteers."

[qwazse]

I would pick almost anyone here to do the rewrite.  Council?  Not so much: "The Council reguires that BALOO-trained leaders are also trained in Wouth Protection. The BSA reguires Wouth Protection training for all registered volunteers."

Sounds like I have an weevil twin in the typo dept.

[Col. Flagg]

I would pick almost anyone here to do the rewrite.  Council?  Not so much: "The Council reguires that BALOO-trained leaders are also trained in Wouth Protection. The BSA reguires Wouth Protection training for all registered volunteers."

 

Don't Elmer Fudd-shame.   

[TAHAWK]

Sounds like I have an weevil twin in the typo dept.

 

I kant tipe ether.  Butt itz knot mi jobb to doo the kounsil webbcite.

[CalicoPenn]

Werd!

[TAHAWK]

Gǣð Ä Wyrd swÄ hÄ«o scel!