I'm so tired

[Stosh]

That's how Rugby was discovered. Just sayin'.

 

Yeah, but they created a whole new sport, they didn't change the original..... Just sayin'.

[Eagledad]

Yep I can believe it.  My problem was that the Crossed Over parents/Cub Leaders took over the troop, and began running the troop like Cub Scouts. As their commissioner, I tired to work with them and help them get back on course their previous SM set for the unit; SCOUT LED! Long story short, I was told I don't know what I'm talking about and that Scouting needs to change with the times.

 

If the troop can survive 1-2 more years, I see turn around. That group of parents are done with Scouts since most of their sons have Eagle and left. Only 1 or 2 remain. After 3 years of no new Scouts, they finally got a batch, as well as a Scouter who understands the program and wants it done right. There is a lot less resistance now to Scout Led.

This very same thing happened with a home school troop. They took over and the troop went into a high pressure Eagle Mill program. When we approached the leaders, they told us we were just being bias. The one advantage to that troop was their sons' Eagled by age 14 and those adults left.

 

Barry

[Col. Flagg]

Yeah, but they created a whole new sport, they didn't change the original..... Just sayin'.

 

Actually, changes did happen to both football and rugby. It lead to the codification of each sport. So to continue the analogy, it would be like having two types of troops: Those that were boy led (football) and those that were adult led (rugby).

[Eagle94-A1]

... The one advantage to that troop was their sons' Eagled by age 14 and those adults left.

 

While most of the adults are gone, the SM isn't. Sadly his son is not interested in earning Eagle and is dragging his feet on the matter. Dad will not quit as SM until son gets Eagle. 

[EmberMike]

Scouting has fallen victim the same thing that a lot of extra-curricular activities have. It's a check-list item for college applications. And frankly I can't fault the parents all that much because they hear it from schools, guidance counselors, etc., that your kid needs to participate in X number of extra activities, clubs, sports, etc. Just getting that high school diploma isn't enough. 

 

And this goes back a while. I heard all the same stuff when I was in high school in the late 90s. I was wait-listed at the college I wanted to go to and only got accepted a month before I finished high school. I'm confident that having that Eagle rank was the difference between getting in or not. 

 

Parents want their kids to get that same kind of edge, where having another thing on the checklist can be make all the difference. Sure it goes against the intent of scouting to treat it as something to just get through. But unfurtunately that's the world we live in. Everything is super competitive, and it's harder than ever to treat every activity with the due respect and dedication that it deserves. 

 

I'm not defending this stance, just saying that I kind of get why we're faced with this issue so often. And that I don't think we can fault the parents all of the time when there are so many factors and influences involved that contribute to this kind of eagle-mill attitude towards scouting. Ultimately parents should still want their kids to be better people for having gone through scouting and done it the right way, not simply earning a rank and checking another college application checkbox. And that's a decision that every parent can make, if they choose to. But going down that path of treating scouting as a checkbox item doesn't always start with a parent. There are many outside influences in this. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by EmberMike

[Stosh]

And one must also remember that WHICH college makes a big difference. 

 

2 year local technical college.... boys and girls get to play on the A-team for two years instead of having to sit on the bench waiting for those later year opportunities.  They get a degree in half the time and end up with trade skills that can bring in some rather large incomes once they graduate at age 20.  As a welder how much he/she makes and you will know what I mean.  2 years of local college costs far less than a 4 year local college.

 

4 year local college... again one is playing the number's game.  Start paying off one's loan at age 20 with large income trade skills or continue to run up the tab and hope one gets a job when done?  Many 4 year college grads don't make as much as a master craftsman does.... ever!

 

4 year prestigious college.... Other than running up the bill, what's the big deal.  A job that pays a bit more in the end?

 

Masters/Doctorate..... Can I say, "Debt free at age 50 celebrations!!!!"

 

It's time to take the Personal Management MB ... for real!

 

And by the way, all one needs is a HS diploma for 2 year local technical college.  They don't worry about Eagle credits, or volunteer work, or anything other than the diploma.  If you haven't got one, they provide a GED as prep to get started.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Stosh

[EmberMike]

And one must also remember that WHICH college makes a big difference...

 

And this all goes back to my previous post, and the influences parents and kids hear from. "Want your kid to be a successful human? They need to do this, this, and this, get into a good 4-year college, graduate, get a nice office job, start a family, live happily ever after, blah blah blah." 

 

That's the story parents are still told today, even though it's false, and so parents still follow that checklist mentality to get their kids ready for applying to those prestigous 4-year colleges. 

 

The whole narrative is messed up, and until that changes, scouting (and everything else kids participate in) will continue to be viewed as something to be completed, as a list of things to check off on a longer list of things you need to do to make it beyond high school. 

[Col. Flagg]

Sorry, but you can get in to most colleges with decent grades and good test scores. You don't need a resume of 45 activities and NHS. This is all part of the college machine designed to brain wash parents and kids that if they don't get in to a $45k/year school (or higher) their kid won't make it in the business world. It's complete horse hockey!

 

My company (Fortune 100) hires all the time; over 400,000 people worldwide. The kids from University of SW Bumbleland (tuition 18k/year) has just a much of a chance of getting hired as the brat from Cal State or Berkley. It's about the PERSON not the school. Of course the exception would be MIT or other specialty schools like that.

 

Scout son had mediocre grades in HS. Top 2% on SAT and ACT. Got in to local state school (20k/year) in to great tech program on scores alone. Did "just scouts" in HS and it wasn't an issue!

[Eagle94-A1]

Masters/Doctorate..... Can I say, "Debt free at age 50 celebrations!!!!"

 

 

OH I WISH!

[Stosh]

  I was a 2nd Class scout, I graduated in the lower half of my HS class, I earned 2 tech school AA degrees in tech college, I earned a BS in a state university, I earned a M. Div. from a church seminary.  I have held certification in EMT-A to help my community as a volunteer.  I am trained and experienced in many different classifications with the American Red Cross.  I am debt free and have been for 99% of my life.  Of course retiring with a 7-digit saving's account didn't hurt one bit either considering I own 2 homes outright along with 5 cars all paid for.  I never earned the Personal Finances MB, but I'm a PF MBC.  I never listen to the advice du jour, especially coming from those that have never figured out the system.

 

So, 'splain to me how it works in your world.  The sky is blue in mine.   

[Eagle94-A1]

Stosh,

 

Unfortunately I made the mistake of not only going to a private college (the partial scholarship to it helped make that decision), but going to grad school twice, once for a history degree that there is an overabundance in the market of, and then a library degree. I will be finished with my student loan debt when my kids are out of college.  I wish I would be debt free at 50.

 

On a different note since I'm the one responsible for helping people go back to school at my job, I know a lot more now than my mom ever did about the college process, transfer credit, financial aid etc. I hope and pray that my kids follow my advice, and do the 2 year community college program, then tranfer to a state school for the final 2 years. Or even take advantage of the early scholars program where they can take college credit classes at the local community college while JRs and SRs in high school, and have it applied to they bachelors degree.

[Stosh]

If one were to check the laws in their own state they might discover a little loop hole available to kids today. 

 

In our state, all minors under the age of 18 are required by law to attend school.  So, my daughters are homeschooling their children and for every year they advance faster than public school children and taking into account college credit in the AP offerings of the local colleges, one can literally get 1, 2, 3, or maybe all 4 years of college FREE (if they are Doogie Howser)!  Even if they could only get ahead 2 years, that's close to $100,000 worth of college for free.

 

Never take anything at face value, do your research!  Otherwise, one has to pay for their ignorance.

Edited May 13, 2017 by Stosh