Eagle references

[MattR]

 

As I said earlier, I have never seen it happen either, but I am sure it does happen, and that old thread seems to support that idea.  It does not really shed any light on the kinds of situations in which it might happen.  One can only guess at the reasons why that Scout got four negative letters, and I mean that literally:  One can only guess.

I'm not surprised at all. I've seen scouts do incredibly dumb things thinking they'd get away with it. Case in point: there's an old thread about a scout smoking marijuana at summer camp (yeah, that was my scout). So, if a scout thinks he can get away with something and is that naive then he's likely to just ask anyone for a recommendation without thinking it through very well. You guys are thinking like adults, not a 16 year old.

[Col. Flagg]

I'm not surprised at all. I've seen scouts do incredibly dumb things thinking they'd get away with it. Case in point: there's an old thread about a scout smoking marijuana at summer camp (yeah, that was my scout). So, if a scout thinks he can get away with something and is that naive then he's likely to just ask anyone for a recommendation without thinking it through very well. You guys are thinking like adults, not a 16 year old.

 

Sorry, but I did some silly stuff when I was a kid too. I was the kid who hollowed out my cassette tape case and took 4 beers (like that will do anything) to a camp out. I got turned in.

 

A few years later my parents suggested I get a few letters of recommendation from a few of the dads in the troop, several of which were the ones who knew about the beer incident. I was 17 and I knew darn well NOT to contact them for anything.

 

Once a father I ran in to one of them. I apologized for what I had done back then. He remembered and said he was glad I had grown up. I asked him if he would have given me a recommendation back then. He said he wouldn't have because I had broken his trust; and while he wanted me to have a second chance, he didn't think I was worthy of being Eagle.

 

So yes, teenagers ARE -- or at least WERE -- capable of discerning right from wrong AND knowing who to contact for recommendations. I think now (and over the last 15 years or more) folks just think they can get away with stuff.

[MattR]

So yes, teenagers ARE -- or at least WERE -- capable of discerning right from wrong AND knowing who to contact for recommendations.

SOME scouts ARE capable. Some are not. I don't mind scouts that do stupid things as long as they can learn from it. You lost the adult's trust but eventually you earned it back.

 

I think now (and over the last 15 years or more) folks just think they can get away with stuff.

Didn't you think you could get away with it?

[Col. Flagg]

Didn't you think you could get away with it?

 

I wasn't clear. I was not talking about thinking I could get away with bringing the beer. Of course I thought I would.

 

I was talking about some teenager being silly enough to think that they could get away with getting a recommendation from someone who knows they broke the rules (and the law). Some folks -- sadly many more now than in the past -- seem to think they can do anything and it will be forgotten.

 

In my case it was over a decade later when the one dad finally forgave me...and only after I had proven I wasn't a waste of space, time and breath.

[MattR]

That makes more sense.

[NJCubScouter]

In our council references are checked by the unit, in our case, me, the advancement coordinator and I fill out a form stating that I checked the references and not anything negative.  That form gets submitted to the council with the Eagle Package.  I send requests via email and prefer to get an email response.  If I can't get a response via email I call the reference and take notes on our conversation.  At the Eagle Board of Review I provide the letters and/or my notes to the board to review.  The letters are not given to the scout per the GTA.

 

As the advancement coordinator in our troop, I am glad our council does NOT do it that way.     Actually, nobody "checks" the references.  The Scout asks each referer (referent?  referee?) to send a letter to the Scoutmaster.  I think there is also a form but the writers generally write a real letter.  The SM either brings the letters to the EBOR or, if he cannot be there, he gives them to one of the committee members who will be serving on the EBOR.  The letters remain sealed until they are opened by the board members at the EBOR.