MMEZest1997 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 My son (Life Scout) recently graduated a Powder Horn course. He was awarded the PH device. He was told that this hangs from his left pocket, but given no other guidance. He is now wondering if it is okay that it hangs down in front of his Life Scout patch? His leaders don't know as no one in his Troop has ever attended and we cannot seem to find any information governing youth graduates. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 If nobody knows then nobody should complain that it's in the wrong place. Honestly, your son received an award so encourage him to enjoy it. If someone can prove he's wearing it incorrectly then fix it. Either way, congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Latin Scot Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Congratulations to your son! I assume the award he received is the newer version, which is a pin. This should be pinned centered and near the top of his left pocket flap; it will hang down a bit over the flap, but that's perfectly fine. If he in fact received the old version of the award (which is still distributed at some Scout Stores), then it is a "pocket dangler," and you should hang it from the left pocket button (but under the flap which you close over the button) and it will indeed hang completely over his rank badge - it looks a little busy, true, but it is perfectly appropriate and correct! Again, congratulations to him for earning this award! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMEZest1997 Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Thank you both! He did received the "old version" that hangs from his pocket and covers his rank. None of his leaders said anything other than congratulatory remarks and praise for a job well done. His troop here is really less than active and most of the times, when he wants to do something (Merit Badge University, Scout Camp, etc) he is the only one in his Troop that wants to do it, so he usually has to go provisional. Not a single other member of his Troop went to camp last summer and so far, only 2 others have registered to go this year. He loves being a Boy Scout, but wishes the rest of his peers were as interested in it as he is. Unfortunately, most are there because their parents want them to be there so you have several 17-almost-18 year olds struggling to finish the requirements for Eagle in the 11th hour. He wants to assist as a Den Chief for the Cubs, but his leaders say no because the Cubs program has never had Den Chiefs. It's very frustrating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Well, I hope what he learned at Powderhorn can be used to up his troop's game. (Although a more active troop won't prevent those last-minute Eagles you mentioned.) But, the adults need to be willing to let him give it a go. Here's hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Latin Scot Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) They said no because they have never had Den Chiefs?!?!?! Are they out their minds? I have had a young man serving as Den Chief for the Webelos Den I am over for 6 months now, and I will say this straight up - he is one of the greatest assets I have in training these young boys. He is a helpful, cheerful, sober-minded young man who helps me out with virtually all our activities; he sets a solid example of good behavior and uniforming; he is a friend to the younger boys, and a model to the older ones. If they are unsure about letting him assume this responsibility, have them read this post! The BSA has a booklet specifically designed for the Den Chief (called The Den Chief Handbook obviously enough). If the Cub leaders and your son read through it, they will get an idea of how fulfilling a job it can be. Any den leader worth his salt would be crazy to turn down the chance to have a good Den Chief working by his side! And for his leaders to say no just because it hasn't been done - well, you just tell them that kind of attitude goes against the very spirit of Scouting! Here are some links that you may want to pass off to his leaders which highlight how effective a Den Chief can be. I might be slightly biased, but I think to deny a group of Cub Scouts the benefits of having an enthusiastic Scout like your son in their den is nothing less than shameful. Here are the links: http://scoutingmagazine.org/2016/12/meet-den-leaders-best-friends-denners-den-chiefs/ http://scoutingmagazine.org/2010/09/hail-to-the-chief/ http://scoutingmagazine.org/2006/11/scouters-speak-making-better-use-of-den-chiefs/ Edited April 12, 2017 by The Latin Scot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 He should wear the award proudly, and I bet he had a blast! I hadn't heard they switched to a pin, that is sad. Everyone asks me about the award when they see it and they are interested in going. IMHO, Powder Horn is the best scout training I took and I am now on staff for the next course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashmaster Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Congratulations to your son! I assume the award he received is the newer version, which is a pin. This should be pinned centered and near the top of his left pocket flap; it will hang down a bit over the flap, but that's perfectly fine. If he in fact received the old version of the award (which is still distributed at some Scout Stores), then it is a "pocket dangler," and you should hang it from the left pocket button (but under the flap which you close over the button) and it will indeed hang completely over his rank badge - it looks a little busy, true, but it is perfectly appropriate and correct! Again, congratulations to him for earning this award! FYI; my uniform did not have a button on the left pocket so I had to sew on a button to hang it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Latin Scot Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 No button? Which uniform was it? Even the new centennials have a button under the flap specifically for pocket dangler awards. Is it an older uniform? Am I too curious? Lol. Oh and @@MMEZest1997 I should correct myself; the pin version of the Powder Horn medal would be worn centered, at the BOTTOM of the flap, so that it lies on about the same spot as it would have if it were a dangler (I spend a lot of time looking this stuff up, lol). But your son should consider himself lucky to have the older version; I think it's superior myself. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMEZest1997 Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 FYI; my uniform did not have a button on the left pocket so I had to sew on a button to hang it His first uniform did not have a button under the left pocket either, but there was one on the right side...strange. We solved this problem because he has grown out of that uniform and he took one of our uniforms that fit him and we just made necessary adjustments with his patches. No button? Which uniform was it? Even the new centennials have a button under the flap specifically for pocket dangler awards. Is it an older uniform? Am I too curious? Lol. Oh and @@MMEZest1997 I should correct myself; the pin version of the Powder Horn medal would be worn centered, at the BOTTOM of the flap, so that it lies on about the same spot as it would have if it were a dangler (I spend a lot of time looking this stuff up, lol). But your son should consider himself lucky to have the older version; I think it's superior myself. ;-) My son's uniform was bought on November 20, 2013, so it's not too old of a uniform. The shirt he is now wearing (my old shirt) was purchased in/around 1999/2000. He does have the older version - not the pin - so it sounds like we should maybe purchase another dangler just in case of damage to this one before they phase them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMEZest1997 Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 They said no because they have never had Den Chiefs?!?!?! Are they out their minds? I have had a young man serving as Den Chief for the Webelos Den I am over for 6 months now, and I will say this straight up - he is one of the greatest assets I have in training these young boys. He is a helpful, cheerful, sober-minded young man who helps me out with virtually all our activities; he sets a solid example of good behavior and uniforming; he is a friend to the younger boys, and a model to the older ones. If they are unsure about letting him assume this responsibility, have them read this post! The BSA has a booklet specifically designed for the Den Chief (called The Den Chief Handbook obviously enough). If the Cub leaders and your son read through it, they will get an idea of how fulfilling a job it can be. Any den leader worth his salt would be crazy to turn down the chance to have a good Den Chief working by his side! And for his leaders to say no just because it hasn't been done - well, you just tell them that kind of attitude goes against the very spirit of Scouting! Here are some links that you may want to pass off to his leaders which highlight how effective a Den Chief can be. I might be slightly biased, but I think to deny a group of Cub Scouts the benefits of having an enthusiastic Scout like your son in their den is nothing less than shameful. Here are the links: http://scoutingmagazine.org/2016/12/meet-den-leaders-best-friends-denners-den-chiefs/ http://scoutingmagazine.org/2010/09/hail-to-the-chief/ http://scoutingmagazine.org/2006/11/scouters-speak-making-better-use-of-den-chiefs/ They said that if he is really interested, he could look at maybe getting with another Troop and seeing if they are interested. The leaders even offered to contact a few of them to see if they wanted his assistance/services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 They said that if he is really interested, he could look at maybe getting with another Troop and seeing if they are interested. The leaders even offered to contact a few of them to see if they wanted his assistance/services. I'm assuming you mean contacting other Packs. If that's where his heart's at, take them up on it. As a practical matter, den chiefs often have scheduling conflicts with den and pack meetings. More packs to choose from = more dens meeting = greater odds of a den meeting on the best night for the scout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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