Important question

[Fat Old Guy]

" The COR is the CEO of the scouting program in the unit according to the BSA."

 

I dunno. I think that's a bad characterization. The CO owns the troop so the COR is the stockholder's representative; the CC is the Chairman of the Board, setting the direction of the company; and the SM is the CEO, responsible for producing the product in accordance with the wishes of the CC.

[LovetoCamp]

Good answer FOG,

 

It's good that you and Bob White are working together now, let's patch up this rift and reconstruct this burned bridge. You two "smart guys" working for a common goal in the same direction would be a Scouting Force to be reckoned with. It would also be a lot more comfortable for the rest of us on this thread. Take a pull on the cyber peace pipe.

 

Trail "Peacebuilder" Pounder

[Bob White]

Nice try TP But I'm not interested. A person is known by the company they keep, so I select my associations more carefully than that.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy]

Bob White, still showing that the Scout Law applies to everyone but him.

 

 

[fotoscout]

Txscoutdad,

 

There were a number of things that went into the disaster, but a lack of training and effort was not one of them. Bottom line is that the congregation wasnt large enough and/or interested enough to make it work. This was not a church school but merely a relatively small congregation.

 

I have to stand with eisely on this one! I for one would much rather have my son camp next to someone who is different than he rather than a cookie cutter replica of himself.

 

What happened to acceptance of others and their faith. Just because one troop is not open to all does not make BSA being not open to all.

 

Scouting build character one boy at time, not one troop at a time. It would be naive to think that the bias (intentional or not) of troop would not spill over to the youth.

 

 

Given the name of your CO, I have to ask another question, do your boys have any other opportunities to build there socialization skills besides Scouting.

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[LovetoCamp]

Bob & FOG,

 

Hey did you guys know that you're both ASMs. What kind of person would it take to be SMs of your respective troops? That's a position I sure couldn't envision myself in. Probably the toughest job in Scouting.

 

Tell us about him or her, please.

 

 

 

 

[Bob White]

How does belonging to the same organization make each person a "cookie-cutter image" of the other?

 

I don't see that in scouting, I don't see it in my congregation at church, or even in my family.

 

Just because two people share a common denominator in their lives doesn't make them identical in your eyes, does it fotoscout?

 

[LovetoCamp]

We have diversity in my small town. We have white people whose ancestors came from Sicily and Kentucky to work in the Nabisco plant who are protestant and we have white people whoce ancestors came from Sicily and Kentucky to work in the Nabisco plant who are Catholic. We've never had a riot.

[Bob White]

First FOG is not an ASM, at least in the past he has always said that he was a troop committee member.

 

The SM is a 4-beader, he serves with me on the District Training team, we get along great.

[fotoscout]

Bob, it depends on the power of the denominator. In a polarized group the denominator can become very large.

 

Bob, please note I did some editing while you were typing.

 

[Bob White]

Fotoscout as an example;

 

Should someone in the Jewish faith be concerned that only people of the Jewish faith can be a Rabbi?

 

Should that same synagogue want only people of that faith to teach their faith to the youth in the synagogue, would that seem odd to you?

 

So if they wanted someone from their synagogue to teach scouting, why would that be different.

 

And if they wanted to use the scouting program as a vehicle to teach their children about their faith, as well as about the shared values of scouting, where is the problem?

 

In the view of the BSA there is no problem. That is precisely how the program is designed to be used. That is why the BSA fully approves of the Charter Organizations that choose to do this.

 

[Fat Old Guy]

Again Bob White shows that he cannot comply with the simplest of requests. Either he's LD or the Scout Law doesn't apply to Bob White.

 

TP, I'm not an ASM but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express. I'm wondering what the number of beads that someone wears has to do with what type of person an SM is. Maybe in Bob White's mind, more beads means better person.

 

 

 

 

[fotoscout]

Nicely said Bob, but I dont view Scouting as a surrogate for religious education.

 

Scouting is the place where, over the long term, we put to use and demonstrate the tenets of our religious training. Scouting is the place where we all work together and get along, not the place where we celebrate our differences. The essence of Scouting is most evident when we of different backgrounds come together for a Scouters Own, not when we as a polarized group conduct our own denominational prayer service.

 

I dont believe that Scouting was ever intended to be a vehicle to teach children about their faith, thats what religious education is for. The concept in Scouting is to teach the boy that religion extends beyond your house of worship or Sunday school classroom.

 

Too many people have developed the notion that Scouting is a surrogate or extension of their own personal crusade. I believe that too much focus on religion is hurting the scouting program.

 

[Bob White]

FotoScout,

 

There is the crux of the dilemma. You want the BSA to have a program that agrees with you, rather than you having to agree to the BSA program.

 

You write "I dont view Scouting as a surrogate for religious education."

But the BSA does. The BSA allows an approved chartering organization to use the BSA program to further its own mission to youth through the methods and program of scouting. That is a fundamental point of the program and the charter concept.

 

Your write "The essence of Scouting is most evident when we of different backgrounds come together for a Scouters Own," you misunderstand the purpose of scouts own. It helps units or scout gatherings that are mixed celebrate a religious observance based on the commonly shared points of the oath and law. It does not replace individual beliefs or worship obligations.

 

"I dont believe that Scouting was ever intended to be a vehicle to teach children about their faith,"

Again you are mistaken about the structure of scouting. Statistics show that 10 out of every 100 boys who join scouting have their first exposure to formalized religion through the scouting program. We are a religious organization. We require a religious belief for membership, we require a promise of religious service from every member, We have a national division that fosters close cooperation with dozens of religious faiths, we require youth members to provide evidence of religious service to advance. You cannot separate scouting and religious education.

 

"I believe that too much focus on religion is hurting the scouting program."

 

You are welcome to your personal beliefs but do not confuse them with being the facts about the scouting program. What you want the BSA to be, and what it is and has always been, are not the same.

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[fotoscout]

Hi Bob,

 

I am not surprised that you harbor those beliefs. You realize of course that youre a bit over the top on this. The Scout Handbook is not a religious publication. Next thing well be reading about is the investiture of BP as the deity of the WCS (World Church of Scouting).

 

We have a national division that fosters close cooperation with dozens of religious faiths,

 

Youll of course remember that a highly regarded national publication brought some of those relationships into question, and at the least, raised the specter of Nationals concerns about how those relationships have served BSA and what national would need to do in order to sever at least one of those relationships.

 

Bob, BSA is neither a religion, nor a religious movement. BSA is a youth organization. There is something very wrong if children are learning religion from den leaders.

 

Try to remember, this is a game with a purpose! Games that are taken too seriously are harmful to all.

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by fotoscout)