Dilemma

[perdidochas]

That had to be a troop decision.  EDGE is a life rank requirement.  Councils never see individual rank requirements.  BORs review whether rank requirements are complete.  Life BOR is fully within the troop.  As council doesn't look at individual requirements and council doesn't sit on a Life BOR, it had to be a troop decision.  Even the Eagle BOR only looks at the individual Eagle rank requirements.  It does not go back and re-check all previous rank requirements. 

My thoughts as well, the only individual rank requirements national or the council look at are the Eagle ones. The Life and before are all within the Troop, and the only thing sent to Council is rank advancement and merit badges.

[qwazse]

@@qwazse I wasn't Scoutmaster last year. Our Asst. Scoutmaster/Advancement Chairman has been in ill health and passed away a couple days ago. I was left in lurch, but I'm learning a lot.

 

This is the only Scout we had in this predicament. After reviewing the newer requirements, I determined that it would not take much effort to "do the right thing" and delay the BOR. The Scout in question was a tad disappointed, but it's not the end of the world. (As a side note I'm not convinced he is really "gung-ho" about Scouting...)  

 

I feel better about the whole thing now. The next task is to reconcile Troop Records (handwritten) to our Troop web site (on Troop Web Host) to Council and National. Wish me luck!

 

Dean

Sorry for your troop's loss.

 

With all the catch-up from paper to digital, chances are you are going to stumble up some other missteps.

 

As is often the case, what you could do (or as some would view: could get away with) will split in multiple options. But what you should do depends on the scout in front of you and the sharpness of your leaders.

 

For most continually active scouts this would be a tempest in a teapot. It probably is for this scout as well. It can't hurt for the boy to know how to tie a sheet bend.

 

One final strategy: talk to his patrol leader and see if his buddies are willing to go through these last few skills with the scout. That way the boys who didn't have to do the requirements can come along side and do them for fun.

[Stosh]

Are we making our own rules? Or, are we reading the GTA as it is written, and proceeding accordingly?

You seem to want to ignore all that verbiage about not holding up a boy because of adults' shortcomings. You also seem to want to ignore the experience of folks who've seen how this stuff has gone on appeal. Isn't that akin to cheating?

 

Yeah sure, @@Stosh, but this isn't about the kid's 18th birthday and 7 years as a tenderfoot scout.

 

Lacking other information, this is about the adults not getting their acts together in December to help the boy avoid this situation.

 

Unless @, you all did tell the boy to line up his BoR, and he blew you all off.

 

No, the issue is not a 7 year TF, it's an issue of we cut some slack for Eagle, but the TF's get hung out to dry.  It's all one way or the other.  This middle ground, subjective judgments only harm the program and leave a bad taste in the mouths of the boys.

[Stosh]

No, the issue is not a 7 year TF, it's an issue of we cut some slack for Eagle, but the TF's get hung out to dry.  It's all one way or the other.  This middle ground, subjective judgments only harm the program and leave a bad taste in the mouths of the boys.

 

After all, isn't one of the requirements for Eagle is to have a BOR????  And how many of them happen AFTER the birthday?  I can see a COH after the fact, but the EBOR that's held only once a month?  I guess getting boy's their Eagle is more important than getting them their TF.

[fred johnson]

... As a side note I'm not convinced he is really "gung-ho" about Scouting...

 

There is a key aspect of scouting that advancement is tool to motivate the scout.  It's one of the key tools we have as leaders.  IMHO, that concept is a higher priority than using advancement as a "scout" quality check.  Yes as a troop quality check.  Less as a individual scout quality check.  

[fred johnson]

If you don't have any advancement tracking software, I would recommend getting one (like TroopMaster) to help in your role. 

 

I fully understand your view and it's a common view.  My experience though is the best thing our troop ever did was stop recording the small details of scout advancement.  That's for the scout to track in their scout handbook.  If we want to see who's stalled, we can log into BSA's online advancement and run a report.  

[Col. Flagg]

I don't buy that.  The completion of individual rank requirements are not sent to the Council.  All that is sent is the record of rank completion.

 

You don't have to buy it. We lived it and I can assure you it happened. This lead to us being very vigilant since that 2010 requirements change to make sure our guys know the timeline and get their ranks closed out before the deadline.

 

I fully understand your view and it's a common view.  My experience though is the best thing our troop ever did was stop recording the small details of scout advancement.  That's for the scout to track in their scout handbook.  If we want to see who's stalled, we can log into BSA's online advancement and run a report.

Well we used to do it your way until we had two guys lose their book with no back up. Despite telling them to take pictures and store them in the cloud somewhere, they didn't. Books got lost and re-constructing service hours, camping, rank, etc., was arduous. Never again, so we went with TroopMaster and have not looked back. Never had the issue since, though we have had to help a Scout reconstruct their history...made a TON easier with the software.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[fred johnson]

Well we used to do it your way until we had two guys lose their book with no back up. Despite telling them to take pictures and store them in the cloud somewhere, they didn't. Books got lost and re-constructing service hours, camping, rank, etc., was arduous. Never again, so we went with TroopMaster and have not looked back. Never had the issue since, though we have had to help a Scout reconstruct their history...made a TON easier with the software.

 

Understood.  I've seen that argument.  My experience is it's all contained within one rank.  Service hours and camping is pretty easy to re-create.  Even rank requirements for TF, 2C and 1C that are done concurrently should be pretty easy to re-create to figure out how much was completed.  

 

I just hate to see a large large effort to save a relatively rare and small amount of time.  It's one of the issues that scares me with scoutbook.  I don't want to keep click and navigating web pages when all it takes is initially a paper book.  

 

For a troop of 40, it's a lot of work to keep all the small requirements updated in any tool.  Camping and service hour logs are as easy as the scout walking up to the scoutmaster and saying "I think I've completed my service hours expectation".  They discuss.  If meets requirement, it's good.  No on-going log necessary.  Same with camping.  

 

... it's my personality ... I just really like the mode of if you want to know how the scout's doing, talk to the scout.

Edited March 22, 2017 by fred johnson

[Col. Flagg]

For a troop of 40, it's a lot of work to keep all the small requirements updated in any tool.  Camping and service hour logs are as easy as the scout walking up to the scoutmaster and saying "I think I've completed my service hours expectation".  They discuss.  If meets requirement, it's good.  No on-going log necessary.  Same with camping. 

 

I've run the requirements bit for a while, both with and without software. My experience has been that SW saves me tons of time.

 

Before software, a few hours a week. More if I have to help someone reconstruct lost info.

 

After software, if I spend more than an hour a week it is odd.

[RememberSchiff]

We're old school.

 

Scout is responsible for keeping track of his advancement in his handbook. He loses handbook, he has to work the problem just as he does when he loses his homework.  We have had a few scouts lose their handbooks, but they don't do it twice. They do learn to keep their blue cards. We continue to believe this is an important life lesson - that a kid should learn to  keep his own records whether its an exercise plan, bank account, schoolwork, scout handbook...

 

PL is responsible for knowing what his guys need to advance and brings that info to PLC for meeting and activity planning.  A leader looks after his men.

 

SM or Advancement designee (adult) updates scout record at SMC/BOR and submits up the chain when earned.

 

No real-time tracking, no report generation, no JTE paperwork, no software, minimal adult  paperwork processing. We are the Boy Scouts not Goldman Sachs.

 

My $0.02

Edited March 22, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Chadamus]

The nice thing about Troopmaster is the calculations it does for things like the National Outdoor badges among others. I don't have one in front of me so correct me if I'm wrong but tracking ability for those isn't in the handbook.

[Col. Flagg]

The nice thing about Troopmaster is the calculations it does for things like the National Outdoor badges among others. I don't have one in front of me so correct me if I'm wrong but tracking ability for those isn't in the handbook.

 

Or OA, STEM, NOVA, World Conservation, service stars, print out blue cards, or printing our reports when you purchase rank advancement at the scout shop.

 

Do one COH where you have to manually tally 30+ ranks and 150 MBs, service stars, etc., and the time TM saves you is worth the annual subscription.

[NJCubScouter]

I guess getting boy's their Eagle is more important than getting them their TF.

 

I know it is not a popular view in this forum, but the BSA seems to think the Eagle rank is more important than the others.  There's only one rank that has its own chapter in the Guide to Advancement.

[Stosh]

And of course that feeds the fervor around why we have paper Eagles and scouts who's only reason they are in the program is go get Eagle.  And of course the traditional Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle as if simply being a First Class Scout is like being something of a caste pariah. 

 

If BSA were to put as much effort into the other methods of Scouting as they do advancement, things might not be what it is today.  Let your imagination fill in the blanks on what that might be.

[NJCubScouter]

...we have paper Eagles...

Stosh, when you call the kids names, do you call them names to their face, or only behind their backs?

 

Lest you feel singled out, I used to ask Kudu the same thing when he called some Scouts "cupcakes."