Canada Girl Guides restricting scout unit travel to USA

[TAHAWK]

I take it the Girl Guides are separate from Scouts Canada, which includes female Scouts.

[RememberSchiff]

I take it the Girl Guides are separate from Scouts Canada, which includes female Scouts.

 

Yes, Girl Guides is not part of Scouts Canada. Scouts Canada is coed.

[Back Pack]

How much time would/should border crossing time take? 2hours, 4hours, more? With cellphones and social media accounts being examined without a warrant at US border, what what be your electronics policy for trip?

 

If you mean US side of the border, warrants are not necessary, nor have they ever been.

[RememberSchiff]

If you mean US side of the border, warrants are not necessary, nor have they ever been.

 

Not at the US border or within x miles of it, but everywhere else in US, yes I think.

[TAHAWK]

If you mean US side of the border, warrants are not necessary, nor have they ever been.

He was noting, as do you, the lack of a need for warrants.  " With cellphones and social media accounts being examined without a warrant at US border,..."

[TAHAWK]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

[bsaggcmom]

@@RememberSchiff

 

 

 

As a very frequent border crosser and having family members that cross daily here are a few tips/guidelines for your trip.

 

1. Make sure you have notarized travel documents for each Scout you are bringing with you across the border. These include a permission to travel abroad with a list of specific adults on specific dates. Permission to obtain emergency medical care for each member (youth and adult) while in Canada if needed. Create a travel packet for each member. A gallon Ziploc bag that contains notarized forms, passport/border cards/enhanced state ID/original raised seal birth certificate, troop permission slip, and a copy of the member's health form.

 

2. Packets accompany the members and are held by the driver of each vehicle. Driver hands the packets to Canadian/US customs agent at the border. Identification document on top, notarized permission to travel abroad form next, then notarized emergency health and regular health forms round out the bundle. Driver's packet is first. Organize packets by front seat, middle row and back row of the vehicle, driver to passenger sides. This is how we have done it for 25 years with our Girl Scout troop when we travel to Canada each Mother's Day weekend for a big camporee near London Ontario. Never had a problem crossing either way.

 

3. All phones/electronics turned off and stowed at the time of crossing. No sunglasses or hats on. If your driver wears prescription glasses have them switch temporarily to indoor glasses from their sunglasses. Border agents don't like sunglasses. Or they can take the glasses off for discussion with the agent.

 

4. No cameras at either border or near the border area. NO PICTURES OF BORDER AGENTS OR SURROUNDINGS.

 

5. Keep all vehicles in the same lane and together so that everyone deals with the same agent. Trailer comes through last. Designate a meeting spot after clearing customs. DO NOT gather the convoy on border crossing property. That way you will be close if there is a problem but not interfering with traffic flow. Everyone should be organized the same way going on to the border zone property too.

 

6. Parents and their kids should be in the same vehicles at the time of border crossings. As should siblings. You can regroup before entering or after exiting the border zone if siblings don't want to travel together. NEVER, EVER REGROUP IN THE BORDER ZONE.

 

7. NO WEAPONS, MACE, PEPPER SPRAY, NOTHING BIGGER THAN A POCKET KNIFE in vehicles or on person. CANADA DOESN'T DO GUNS!!!!!! Make sure all guns and ammunition are left at home. You will go to jail and they will seize your vehicle forever if you bring a gun in. Larger cooking knives need to be secured in a patrol box in a trailer or trunk. Pocket knives put away pockets or backpacks.

 

8. Proper current identification for everyone. Passports, passport cards (obtained just like a regular passport with the same forms and processes, only good for land crossing to US/Canada/Mexico), enhanced state ID (similar process to getting passport but done at your state DMV office, not available in all states). Our group and several school groups here also use raised seal/original birth certificates for youth under 18. There has always been an exemption for organized youth groups traveling between Canada/US to travel on birth certificates. Anyone over 18 has to have a passport/passport card/enhanced state ID. Check guidelines before travel.

 

9. Turn off data usage and roaming services for mobile devices unless the device has an international usage plan. It isn't uncommon for people to rack up hundreds if not thousands of dollars of roaming/international usage charges. A quick text can cost $5 or an email check can cost $25 or more if you don't have an international plan. My daughter tallied up $550 in 2 days because her phone didn't connect properly to the hotel wifi. Phone company was good about it, but they didn't have to be. Just turn the devices off. One leader can get a temporary international plan for a month and roll the cost of that into trip costs. We are doing that when the girls go to England in August.

 

Hope this helps. I have been crossing the border for over 50 years, and 7 years with Girl Scouts and never had a major problem. A few crabby agents here and there, only 2-3 vehicle searches. Searches were because my vehicle matched a vehicle of interest (Amber alert type things). Follow the Scout law and you shouldn't have a problem. Courteous, kind, obedient, friendly, cheerful and most of all Be Preapred. Nothing worse than rifling for documents at the agents shack.

 

Have a great trip.

[RememberSchiff]

@@bsaggcmom

Thanks for your very informative reply;

[NJCubScouter]

@@bsaggcmom 's very helpful post reminded me of this thread from a few years ago: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/26414-alaska-border-patrol-officer-pulls-handgun-on-scout-confiscates-camera-detains-group/

 

As I recall, there was never any clear "conclusion" about what happened in that case, and specifically no clear answer about whether the border agent actually pulled a gun.  The government said no gun was pulled, which satisfied the Scouts' council, and some people here (including me) believed it, and others didn't.

 

One thing that was clear in that case is that one or more Scouts were taking photos beyond the point where there was a big sign that warned against the taking of photos.  (See #4 in bsaggcmom's post.)  I did not re-read the entire thread but I seem to recall that this resulted in the agents inspecting one of the kids' phones and finding one or more photos that created a problem.  I also seem to recall that one or more Scouts were (allegedly) not following the instructions of the officers, which created more of a problem.

[RememberSchiff]

Maybe add a requirement to Citizenship in Nation or World regarding border crossing procedures, both US and foreign.

 

IMHO, add requirement to Nation right after requirement #4

 

4. Discuss each of the following documents with your counselor. Tell your counselor how you feel life in the United States might be different without each one.

   a. Declaration of Independence

   b. Preamble to the Constitution

   c. The Constitution

   d. Bill of Rights

   e. Amendments to the Constitution      

 

What happens when old Schiff returns to US wearing his old Argus 35mm camera, does BCP seize my undeveloped film?

 

   <--- imagine a camera that didn't need a battery

 

With more people storing info remotely in a "cloud" and clearing history, I wonder about the law enforcement value as well as the constitutionality of these measures.

 

My $0.02

Edited March 21, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Back Pack]

Don't worry, the NSA's data centers in the desert surely have copies of anything you've loaded in to the cloud.

[Stosh]

BWCA requires a permit which has to be purchased and they are limited to a lottery selection in January and any extras are first come, first served, The canoes must be registered even if your state doesn't require it.  Your entry point is the only place where you may enter and then only a maximum 9 people are allowed.  Once you leave, you cannot return unless you go through the whole procedure again from the start.  If you wish to cross over into the Canadian side of the BWCA, then it gets really difficult.  I'm sure there's more to the story on international border crossings in the BWCA, but this should suffice as fair warning that with that much paperwork and protocol and restrictions, the Canadian Girl Guides will not be going there anytime soon.  One may wish to consider other alternatives for high adventure there as well.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Stosh

[DuctTape]

As an aside, last summer I spent two weeks in the Quetico (North of BWCA in Canada). The number of other paddlers is a mere fraction of that in the BWCA. Awesome fishing too.

[Eagledad]

As an aside, last summer I spent two weeks in the Quetico (North of BWCA in Canada). The number of other paddlers is a mere fraction of that in the BWCA. Awesome fishing too.

We went three days without seeing a single person. The first person (couple) we saw was naked. We all just quietly paddled past their camp.

 

Barry

[RememberSchiff]

The US is banning laptops and other electronic devices on inbound flights from some countries. The UK has now joined the ban and Canada is considering it. The concern is that these devices could be weaponized.