Canada Girl Guides restricting scout unit travel to USA

[Cambridgeskip]

With Sweden and France both identifying areas that the police won't go into as No Go zones, what makes one think this isn't real?

 

Stosh, both of those claims have been debunked.

 

Sweden was a mistranslation where 50 something areas were described as "vulnerable areas" which required intensive policing. Quite the opposite of no go. In France there wasn't any such designation, simply a selection of cities with particularly dangerous areas. Basically major cities with some dangerous areas shock horror!

 

Fox news were forced to retract their comments.

 

The idea of no go zones is a myth created by the right wing media. It's not been helped by the left wing media refusing to acknowledge that there are places where integration of the muslim/asian community is an obvious problem. But no go zones? Total nonsense.

 

I don't see scout associations banning travel to Great Britain because of brexit.  

 

 

 

Are you seriously making a comparison between a blanket (albeit temporary) ban on people from 6 countries and a decision to leave a free trade area? Seriously?

[Back Pack]

It's is NOT a blanket ban. For Pete's sake people can we read a newspaper?

 

Here's the NY Times take on it and they are hardly Trump fans. Even they say it's not a blanket ban. A blanket ban would be for ALL people from those six countries. It doesn't!!!

 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/06/us/politics/travel-ban-muslim-trump.html?_r=0&referer=https://mobile-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/us/politics/trump-travel-ban.amp.html?amp_js_v=9

[qwazse]

The tactical inefficiency of the executive orders can be debated. (With what little I can stand to read of our sworn enemy's tactics, I see no reason to feel safer with even the most comprehensive proposed travel bans in effect.)

 

But the point here, is that rather than requiring troops to have contingencies for border detentions, Guides Canada has opted to execute an across-the-board travel ban.

[Back Pack]

So you feel no safer knowing that states rife with terrorists and unable to control them, can no longer simply have their terrorists buy a ticket, use their valid passport and fly to wherever you are and blow up your local mall? Because now they have to get a forged passport and pass great scrutiny?

 

I suspect you don't fee safer when police patrol your street when a know murder is on the loose either. Please.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Back Pack

[qwazse]

So you feel no safer knowing that states rife with terrorists and unable to control them, can no longer simply have their terrorists buy a ticket, use their valid passport and fly to wherever you are and blow up your local mall? Because now they have to get a forged passport and pass great scrutiny?

 

I suspect you don't fee safer when police patrol your street when a know murder is on the loose either. Please.

No, because their most successful attacks thus far have not been through export of their loyalists hailing from rogue states. That's a rather expensive proposition, and if Da'esh is anything, they are cost-conscious.

 

Their strategy has been and continues to be to recruit citizens (West or from Western-allied countries) to their cause through social media, interactive propaganda (e.g. video games), and inspiring revolution movies. (Anyone see Rogue One?) Then give them a menu of actions they could take, starting with praying faithfully, to relief work, to defending the movements "good" name, to studying infrastructure, to violence.

 

Vetted refugees, -- especially those who have aided our operations in the past -- are the least of our worries. Our fellow citizens and the children of citizens from countries of stable states on the other hand ...

[Col. Flagg]

Last time I checked, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, Iraq, Iran and Syria were about as rogue as you can get in the Middle East. According to the latest reports that have been released from the western governments combating terrorism, planning cells in these countries have been responsible for most of the attacks and foiled attacks in the past two years. The training camps are in these countries, the leaders are in these countries, the apparatus for arming and aiding is in these countries.

 

But by all means, let's not worry about that at all. What's a six month wait while we institute better vetting procedures measured against stopping even the potential for one Paris-style attack?

 

We owe our citizens the protection which is their right. Helping those nationals from other countries is secondary to that duty. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[bearess]

Leaving the politics travel ban out of it, I live in a Canadian border state, and we have seen a lot of local news lately about Canadians being detained at the border/denied entry to the US. In a few cases, this has been because they didn't have their documents inorder, but in most cases it has been people who have crossed the border many times before with no issues. Here's an example: http://www.wcax.com/story/34459430/muslim-canadian-woman-turned-away-at-highgate-springs-border

 

With so much of Canada so close to the US, these stories are going to be more prevalent in Canada than in most of the US. I can't say I'm surprised by the decision, although I don't know if it was the right one.

[Back Pack]

Assuming that report is even real. Need both sides to know for sure.

[Stosh]

Being a state close to the Can/Am border, I have always found getting into Canada far easier than getting back to America....... This has been the case LOOOOONNNG before Trump was even considering running for President.  I'm talking about the fishing trips I frequently made to Canada, the touristy things over the years, etc.  The last time I was in Canada, 2 years ago, the Canadian border guards smiled and waved as I passed by the booth.  Getting into the States?  Well that was not that easy and that was when Obama was president,   So most of these smoke and mirror antics have nothing to do with presidents in as much as it does with political agendas floating around in rumors and hearsay so that the powers that are find it difficult to made mature decisions.

 

I'll add a bit of history to this from a close friend of mine.  His family and another made their annual trip and crossed the border.  When returning the wives and girls were in one car and the dads and boys were in another.  When they got to the border, the women went right on through, but when the guys got there, the border guard pulled open the back door and got right up close to one of the boys and asked him who the two men were in the front seat.  The boy was terrified and said he wanted his "'mommy".  Well, it was hours before the wives could get back there to rescue the guys, otherwise they would still be sitting there in border detention.  This was the Mexican border.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Stosh

[bearess]

I think the report is accurate. But my point wasn't really about the accuracy- simply that, locally, I see lots of stories like that, as do most Canadians, so that's some context for the decision.

I go up to Canada frequently to visit family, and I find the crossing fairly easy both ways, although the Canadian border guards tend to be more relaxed/jokey.

[Col. Flagg]

I think the report is accurate. But my point wasn't really about the accuracy- simply that, locally, I see lots of stories like that, as do most Canadians, so that's some context for the decision.

I go up to Canada frequently to visit family, and I find the crossing fairly easy both ways, although the Canadian border guards tend to be more relaxed/jokey.

 

I see "reports" of all sorts of stuff. Until they are validated they are only one-sided reports that can be either true or lies. Given the state of journalism these days, one cannot put much trust in these reports. Many times the truth lies somewhere in between.

 

I've gone to Sea Base (non US areas) and been interrogated about my visit, length of stay, etc. I've gone on mission trips where we've been held for hours while the government validates our valid visas. I've been held up by my own customs guys on occasion. I've been denied entry in to countries at the border. I've been on trains that were denied entry in to countries and returned back to the station of origin. I been outright discriminated against in Mexico for being American. Spat on, denied entry, held for questions, subjected to search. What I am going to do? Complain? Everyone knows that Americans are not liked there. But I don't go to the media to complain. The response would be, "Yeah, we know. What did you expect?"

Edited March 18, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Peregrinator]

I have always found getting into Canada far easier than getting back to America

 

I've only crossed the border twice in each direction (both times when Obama was President), but my experience is the same.

[TAHAWK]

British passport holder with valid visa refused entry to the USA

 

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/british-muslim-teacher-denied-entry-us-school-trip

 

"US president Donald Trump's executive order clamping down on Muslim immigration to the US was hastily unveiled at the end of his first week in office."

 

The ban applied to any traveler from seven predominately Muslim countries.  Not the largest Muslim countries, as it happens, or to 85% of the world's Muslims but to Christians from those countries too (those alive, of course).   What the Fox-class story omits is the reason why he was barred.  From one of the the seven? Bureaucratic fowl-up?

 

I was delayed for almost three hours getting two American-born Scouts of Vietnamese heritage back into the U.%. in 1984.   Methodists, as it happens.  

 

Now I couldn't get into Canada or back to the U.S. unless I have a Passport or Pass Card.  That would be due to law from the Obama government era.  Nor may I enter the U.K. without a Passport or "identity card."  "You may also need a visa to come into or travel through the UK, depending on your nationality."

Edited March 19, 2017 by TAHAWK

[TAHAWK]

The teacher was from Bangladesh according to some "journalists," "Pakistani" according to others, and British-born according to yet others.  I either case, he was not subject to the Executive order in question.  

 

The reason why he was "kicked," "booted," thrown," "ordered," or "pitched" off the plane in Iceland is only speculated at, according to the political or ethnic saga being advanced.

 

He didn't like the hotel he was placed in until his return flight. (“horrendous hotel“)

 

The story apparently stopped being "news" in about a week.

 

I can find no explanation, if it was a U.S. decision.  Anyone else?

Edited March 19, 2017 by TAHAWK

[RememberSchiff]

The 36th Annual Hands Across the Border will be held in Canada at Camp Stone,
near Kimberley British Columbia, September 29-Oct 1, 2017.
 
This is the first time in several years the event will be held in Canada. This is very exciting news and I believe those units going will have a great experience.
 
... the camp’s location is a 5-hour drive from Missoula, not taking into account border crossing time.
 

How much time would/should border crossing time take? 2hours, 4hours, more? With cellphones and social media accounts being examined without a warrant at US border, what what be your electronics policy for trip?

 

In link, I was not aware of passport cards ($30 versus $100 passport) for US-Canada-Mexico land border crossing.
  http://www.montanabsa.org/2017-hands-across-border/ 

 

Edited March 19, 2017 by RememberSchiff