Canada Girl Guides restricting scout unit travel to USA

[Back Pack]

I think you've missed my point.

 

It's not an either or argument. It's not about hurting anyone's feelings or otherwise.

 

The US government can of course do what it wants with regard to security. It may also, and indeed areas of the country that are highly dependent on tourism may like it if, want to ensure that those who would otherwise not be turned away aren't scared off. It doesn't have to chose. It can do both. I am sue there are different branches of the executive there to do both. And if it chooses to do both a narrative, a story, something that makes it personal is a more effective method of doing so than dry statistics about all those people who have no doubt entered the country without difficulty.

 

I do get the point. Mine is we will err on the side of safety first, then fix whatever may be broken. We didn't before and we paid dearly. If that means fewer lines at Disney World so be it.

[RememberSchiff]

I think you've missed my point.

 

It's not an either or argument. It's not about hurting anyone's feelings or otherwise.

 

The US government can of course do what it wants with regard to security. It may also, and indeed areas of the country that are highly dependent on tourism may like it, want to ensure that those who would otherwise not be turned away aren't scared off. It doesn't have to chose. It can do both. I am sure there are different branches of the executive there to do both. And if it chooses to do both a narrative, a story, something that makes it personal is a more effective method of doing so than dry statistics about all those people who have no doubt entered the country without difficulty. 

 

I agree some positive, personal tourist stories regarding US border entry would be helpful, but then some positive stories about TSA in mid-America are rare too.

Edited March 16, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Tampa Turtle]

We should all remember a Scout is Courteous, we should try to welcome all scouts not just tell them to stay away because they are different.

 

I do not think the Canadian Girl Guides are being foolish; they may just not wish to go where they feel some of their members are not welcome. There are reports of TSA being overly zealous...why would a scout leader want to put up with that? If I was leading a BSA trip to Mexico I would worry we might get harassed at immigration if someone wanted to make a point. I think Cambridge Skip made a reasonable decision to fly through the US.

 

World Jamboree 2019 is supposed to be hosted by Canada-USA-Mexico is it not? That should be interesting...Performers refused to play at Jamboree because of the BSA Gay policy...will there be consequences to the current situation?

[Col. Flagg]

World Jamboree 2019 is supposed to be hosted by Canada-USA-Mexico is it not? That should be interesting...Performers refused to play at Jamboree because of the BSA Gay policy...will there be consequences to the current situation?

 

Let's host it in Pakistan or Nigeria or Qatar or Saudi Arabia or India then. I wonder how tolerant those cultures are of gays or women or minorities. 

 

For all of our faults, we (the US) is still the most welcoming and generous nation on the face of the Earth. We should not lose sight of this fact when we discuss exercising our right to keep our country safe. 

 

Imagine the publicity if we DIDN'T scrutinize folks coming in and we had a Paris or Berlin-style attack at Jamboree. How indignant would people be then that we weren't more vigilant?

[David CO]

I don't see scout associations banning travel to Great Britain because of brexit.  

 

This is just more liberal Trump bashing. I wish other countries would stay out of our internal politics. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by David CO

[Rick_in_CA]

For all of our faults, we (the US) is still the most welcoming and generous nation on the face of the Earth. We should not lose sight of this fact when we discuss exercising our right to keep our country safe. 

 

Imagine the publicity if we DIDN'T scrutinize folks coming in and we had a Paris or Berlin-style attack at Jamboree. How indignant would people be then that we weren't more vigilant?

The problem is the new executive order has nothing to do with safety, it's about pandering to fear, ignorance and bigotry. And it's obvious to anyone that is paying attention.

 

For example, the text of the original order specifically mentions the 9/11 hijackers as a reason for the ban. But the 9/11 hijackers came from which nations? Fifteen of the Nineteen were from Saudi Arabia, and the others were from Egypt, Lebanon, and the United Arab Emirates. All of which are majority Muslim nations that are NOT included in the executive order. Why? Maybe because Trump has business ties to those nations and not the ones one the list?

 

As for perceptions, the USA currently has a big image problem. After all, when Trump appoints an alt-right figure head (Steve Bannon) to be his right hand man, when Trump’s statements and actions are consistently praised by the likes of David Duke, the KKK and other white nationalists, when Trump retweets a laundry list of half-baked conspiracy theories, and he and his administration repeat easy to check lies almost daily? We shouldn’t be surprised that the nation has an image problem and people might want to wait and see before coming over for a visit.

 

If I was in charge of a group of kids, I would have a good think before taking them to the border. I would probably take them anyway, but I wouldn’t condemn someone that made the other choice.

[Stosh]

The world changed on 9/11 and now after 10+ years we are seeing the repercussions.  How does Britain, Sweden, Germany, France, the Netherlands all feel about what's happening and why wouldn't the US take steps to protect itself?  Both Obama and Trump addressed the issues, however, the political agendas involved have affected the effectiveness of the efforts.  At the present time, the US does not have No Go zones as there are in the European countries, but does that mean it won't happen here?  What about Canada?  Who's exempt from such quiet invasions?  

 

If one thinks turning people away at the borders, it's just a matter of time before governments move into these enclaves and put a halt so such antics.  I can easily imagine the National Guard being called up.  Incidents like Waco, Green River, etc. may become the norm for our country as well and then everyone will be sitting around wondering why we allowed such situations in the first place.  Immigrants of the past assimilated themselves into the American (and other European) cultures, not everyone today accepts that as a basis for immigration.

 

While I may not like the strategies taken, I think the intent for such actions are warranted.

[Col. Flagg]

The problem is the new executive order has nothing to do with safety, it's about pandering to fear, ignorance and bigotry. And it's obvious to anyone that is paying attention.

 

Really? The six countries in the ban have huge problems with terrorism. It has nothing to do with religion. If you cannot see that I cannot help you.

 

Go take a group of kids to any of those countries. Have fun.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Rick_in_CA]

At the present time, the US does not have No Go zones as there are in the European countries, but does that mean it won't happen here?

So we are back to the No Go Zone fantasy? When policy is based on alt-facts (i.e. delusions) instead of reality, we have a problem.

[Rick_in_CA]

Really? The six countries in the ban have huge problems with terrorism. It has nothing to do with religion. If you cannot see that I cannot help you.

 

Go take a group of kids to any of those countries. Have fun.

If you can't see the obvious than I cannot help you.

[Col. Flagg]

If you can't see the obvious than I cannot help you.

 

Please show me, it being so obvious, where the discrimination lies. Barring people from six countries is hardly racist or discriminatory. 

[Stosh]

With Sweden and France both identifying areas that the police won't go into as No Go zones, what makes one think this isn't real?

[Eagledad]

The problem is the new executive order has nothing to do with safety, it's about pandering to fear, ignorance and bigotry. And it's obvious to anyone that is paying attention.

 

Sorry, I couldn't read the rest. Starting out with words like pandering, fear and bigotry all in the same sentence can only intended to attack a segment of readers to which you don't agree. Talk about unscout like! I am curious, did you really want to have a mature intellectual dialogue, or were you just trying to find a clever opening?

 

If you are wondering; yes I also corrected scouts who used the same manner of dialogue. I pushed them to practice a mature form of communication so that listeners would feel encouraged (and safe) to consider or reason their words instead of being repulsed by a rancor tone. 

 

Barry

Edited March 16, 2017 by Eagledad

[RememberSchiff]

http://www.wallaceburgcourierpress.com/2017/03/15/lambton-event-not-expected-to-end-with-girl-guide-canada-policy-change

 

A decision by Girl Guides Canada to stop granting approval for trips to the U.S. isn't expected to end a five-decade-old annual cross-border event in Sarnia-Lambton.

 

This year's 50th anniversary of the Girl Guides and Girl Scouts International River Crossing is set for Sept. 30 in Sombra, on the Canadian side of the river, and a park on the Michigan side.

 

Girl Guide groups, from Sparks to Rangers, hold special events during the day of the event, and participants are able to cross on the Sombra Ferry to take part in activities on both sides of the border.

 

Madeline Pauschenwein, a community guider with the Girl Guides in Lambton, said a great deal of paperwork had already been required for leaders wishing to take groups across the border during the event, but the organization was able to come up with an alternative in recent years.

 

“Anybody that wants to cross, has to bring a parent with them to go, so they can still cross,†Pauschenwein said.

 

“It's on the parents’ shoulders then, and not Girl Guides of Canada.â€

 

May common sense prevail.

[Stosh]

With Sweden and France both identifying areas that the police won't go into as No Go zones, what makes one think this isn't real?

 

I don't think this is anything new except the intensity of the violence in these areas.  35 years ago, I was advised not to be out in the desert east of San Diego after dark.  I was told not to take my walks in the evening anywhere along University Avenue.  El Cajon Blvd. a few blocks away was okay.  When I was on my class trip (1967) we were told to look out the windows into a certain area of New York, but that was as close as the tour bus would go.  In Chicago the Red Line transit was to be taken with caution.  It will not stop at certain areas to pick up or drop off.  I do know of one transit operator that refuses to operate the bus in that area.....because he lives there!  Locals warned us in St. Louis, LA, Milwaukee and other such places not to go to.

 

This is nothing new, but the intensity has upped it's game and people are told to stay away.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Stosh