Popcorn Sales Question

[Stosh]

I have worked as head of a faith-based organization, I have worked as head of a community based organization, and I have worked as head of multiple BSA unit organizations from Cubbing through Venturing including Exploring.  Never have I ever come across a situation where a volunteer was ever fired.  They might get "shuffled off to Buffalo", but unless National pulls their registration for whatever reason they deem fit, a volunteer can't be fired.

[David CO]

I don't know how to respond to people who believe that a volunteer can't be fired.

[Back Pack]

I don't know how to respond to people who believe that a volunteer can't be fired.

There's no contract of employment. You can ask them to stop being den leader or events chairman, but you can't fire them. BSA can revoke their membership, so that might be firing them. But asking them to no longer be a volunteer is not firing someone.

[RememberSchiff]

Let's not get tied up in terminology.

 

I do not know the full story of the OP's situation, but as to question can a registered BSA volunteer leader or non-registered volunteer adult be removed (fired, banned, ...) from a scouting position or activity?  Yes and it is unpleasant.

 

IMO, if you see a problem with your unit and the Council or CO does not see it or refuses to rectify it, then it is time to find another unit or another activity.

[David CO]

I was in a similar Pack. Wanted to help at the committee level, suspected some financial and awards shenanigans but waited until I had more information to pass judgment. Was told to run my den and mind my own business. After that we never attended Pack meetings, did our awards at den meetings. Went to blue and gold but sold nothing. My den told the power that be if they won't supply a financial stanrment all they'll get from us is our dues. Pack chair tried to kick out the den but Council said they couldn't.

 

When it came time for them to leave for Boy Scouts we took over, grew the pack and set up a solid line of succession for those behind us. Sometime you just have to wait out the morons and focus on yourself.

 

A den doesn't belong to the den leader.  It belongs to the Chartered Organization that owns the unit.

[David CO]

You're the one who said fire volunteers. I'm still trying to figure out what the OP did that you'd consider firing her.

 

I wasn't aware volunteers could be fired. No joke.

 

I would not allow anyone to participate in our unit who does not fully understand and accept the fact that the Chartered Organization owns the unit.

[Back Pack]

I would not allow anyone to participate in our unit who does not fully understand and accept the fact that the Chartered Organization owns the unit.

Some COs don't get that they own the unit. Some COs treat the unit like a border or tenant. It might be the case here but I don't think we know.

[David CO]

Some COs don't get that they own the unit. Some COs treat the unit like a border or tenant. It might be the case here but I don't think we know.

 

That is true.  All we are told is that the COR is aware of the situation and seems to be fine with it.

[NJCubScouter]

What the original poster actually said was:  "But COR and Council have supposedly been made aware of it, and don't seem to mind."  

 

What "supposedly" means is that someone else TOLD beaglelover that the COR (and council) were made aware of it and don't seem to mind.  So she doesn't actually know whether anybody told anybody anything.

 

As for "fired", I agree with RS, we should not get tied up over terminology.  Some people use "fired" narrowly, to refer only to paying employment.  Others use it more broadly.  I guess I fall into that category.  I can tell you that attorneys often speak of "firing" a client, even though the paying relationship works the other way.  And I have used the term in the past to refer to an involuntary termination of a volunteer.  I was once on the board of trustees of a small local foundation, and the terms of one group of trustees was expiring, and all expressed interest in being re-appointed.  One of these trustees, however, had made a nuisance of herself, was pursuing personal agendas, giving the foundation a less-than-perfect reputation among some of our beneficiaries, and generally "not playing nicely with others".  The board decided to reappoint all of the trustees except her.  We were all volunteers.  Was this trustee "fired"?  Well, you could say that her term expired and she wasn't reappointed.  Or you could say she was fired.  It all works out the same to me, and I am sure she felt like she was fired.

[frankpalazzi]

As for the budget, we are aware that the pack is using atrocious fiscal controls.  Our CC and treasurer are mother/daughter.  The only report on the bank account is a monthly word document from the treasurer, that as DL we used to get a copy of, but now that the mother of the treasurer has become CC, we no longer get a copy of.  We heard that they are going ahead with getting debit cards (against BSA policy) and last we heard the CC determined that the word document was sufficient reporting and that the bank statements would not be turned over to either the Cubmaster or Secretary for records.  All of this is secondhand, however, as the last "leaders meeting" we tried to attend we were kicked out of.  It is pretty much straight out of the "how to embezzle money" playbook.  But COR and Council have supposedly been made aware of it, and don't seem to mind.  Apparently we really trust this family.  If I had to guess, we don't actually have a written budget.

As others have said, there should be total transparency in unit finances.  I was Treasurer for our Troop/Pack for over twenty years.  Along came a couple of cronies who, for some reason, just didn't want me to have the job.  Mind you, I would bring a large ring binder with ALL the bank statements and cancelled checks, all receipts, the checkbook itself, and the ledger.  I too would just copy transactions and numbers from the previous month onto a word document. (Excel is NOT my friend!) Spending categories were accurately and painstakingly broken down and accounted for to the penny.  Despite the fact that I would bring everything, lay it on the table, remind everyone that all was open for inspection, no one ever looked at any of it! Hmmm...  After a few months of harrassment (read: insinuation of mishandling of funds)  by the "cronies", I walked away from the job.  They couldn't wait to audit my books!  When the report was given that "all appears to be in good order" by those who did the audit, I was told by someone present that the Cronies' faces dropped. Big Time.  They were actually removed by the CO for this and other antics.  They now reside in another unit across town, and I'm told that the "house" isn't exactly in "good order".  Kind of self-fulfiliing. 

 

Do you know who your Chartered Organization Representative is?  Is he/she OK with the present arrangement?  If so, there's really nothing you can do about it.  The District/Council doesn't get involved in these types of matters unless they're not getting their share of the action.

 

Also, debit cards aren't prohibited by BSA, but they do declare them "not recommended" or "strongly discouraged".  Our CO prohibits the use of them by the troop and pack, and when they found out they were using them (after my Treasurer gig), they went directly to the bank and cancelled them!

 

Just my $.04

Edited March 14, 2017 by frankpalazzi

[jdbaker]

Perhaps I should clarify, these are the prizes that are offered trough the popcorn company for hitting certain sales levels.  For instance, a level 1 prize at $150 sales, a level 2 prize at $300 sales, a level 3 prize at $500 sales, etc.  If a scout sells $450 in popcorn, he would qualify for a level 2 prize.  The committee member wants to then take the $150 in sales above the $300 required for that scouts prize , and add it to a communal sales total.  Then to use that communal sales total to get a prize (offered by the popcorn company) for the pack.  The individual scout would still get the prize they would have--the CM just wants to use the "extra" instead of letting it go to "waste".  Problem I see is how can you do this without either inventing a scout or giving one scout the credit but having them turn over the prize.  Doesn't seem the most scout-like plan to me, but like I said, did not know if it was common practice.

 

 

As for the budget, we are aware that the pack is using atrocious fiscal controls.  Our CC and treasurer are mother/daughter.  The only report on the bank account is a monthly word document from the treasurer, that as DL we used to get a copy of, but now that the mother of the treasurer has become CC, we no longer get a copy of.  We heard that they are going ahead with getting debit cards (against BSA policy) and last we heard the CC determined that the word document was sufficient reporting and that the bank statements would not be turned over to either the Cubmaster or Secretary for records.  All of this is secondhand, however, as the last "leaders meeting" we tried to attend we were kicked out of.  It is pretty much straight out of the "how to embezzle money" playbook.  But COR and Council have supposedly been made aware of it, and don't seem to mind.  Apparently we really trust this family.  If I had to guess, we don't actually have a written budget.  

 

 

7. If you are a pack committee chair, begin to develop a close working relationship with the Cubmaster. The two of you will be working as a team to make the pack program successful.

 

PACK COMMITTEE CHAIR RESPONSIBILITIES

 

Confer with the Cubmaster on policy matters relating to Cub Scouting and the chartered organization.

 

"So You’re a New Pack Committee Chair/Pack Committee Member"

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-240.pdf

 

With that being said. If I understand it correctly. Every one up the chain of command knows whats going on? 

If so, I would be mho you have a couple of different choices.

1> Drop and run (Not always the best choice in my book)

2> Have a sit down with the Chartered Org again. And inquire have they actually seen a budget/treasury report? And if so when was the last time?

     No documents are private in scouting AT ALL! they MUST be able to be presented AT REQUEST to the parties inquiring.

3> What bank is it at? Are you on the account? You don't mention the Secretary in this Coup? Are they on board or do they pose questions as well?

 

Finally, trust has NOTHING to do with it. The Records prevent ANY kind of doubt, hearsay, and the like. Something must be done, or many good people, starting with the scouts, will get drug down.