Should BSA develop a "Classic Scouting"

[qwazse]

In the UK we have the Baden Powell Scout Association. They split from the main branch of scouting and went their own way in the late 60s, or they would say, they carried on traditional proper scouting that the main branch abandoned. They have some traction where there are enthusiastic leaders. I see pictures and it's all lemon squeezer hats and staffs and shorts and socks with garters. To me, from the outside, it looks like a re-enactment society, though they get quite vexed if you state this. They would maintain they are just following the true path of scouting. Not my cup of tea, but I wish them well with it.

 

Ian

BSA asked BPSA in the US to replace "Scout" with "Service", I have only seen their web presence. Never met any in person.

[NJCubScouter]

That's one more thing that's appealing about the original Camping requirements. There's no pretense about "Boy Scout Camping" or "only one long-term." It's quite clear with 50 nights that camping one week every summer is not gonna get you there, so go ahead count as many of those as you can fit in and still you gotta free up a good many weekends to get it done.  But, if you convince your family to start camping (as son #2's best friend did) you can report that to your counselor as well.

 

Think about that for a second. If your buddies are the odd ducks in your troop who are all about co-ed, go help some girl scouts camp. Earn the badge. If religion is your thing, go sleep under the stars at your church's retreats/missions. Earn the badge. BSA isn't trying to herd you into their corner to bump its participation numbers. If there's a school activity where you could camp at, go for it. Earn the badge.

 

From recruitment requirements to all of the service hour counting. All that "do a favor for your BSA" rhetoric gets pulled.

 

I am not sure I would reach that conclusion.  It may be that those vague requirements from 1911 were interpreted in radically different ways by SM's and MBC's (if they even had MBC's at the beginning) and a decision was made to make the requirements more specific, such as to require that the camping be a Scouting activity.  It might help to know when that change was made.

[RememberSchiff]

I am not sure I would reach that conclusion.  It may be that those vague requirements from 1911 were interpreted in radically different ways by SM's and MBC's (if they even had MBC's at the beginning) and a decision was made to make the requirements more specific, such as to require that the camping be a Scouting activity.  It might help to know when that change was made.

 

IMO, adult leader judgement was trusted more. My old SM would credit patrol camping in our town woods but not backyard or family camping.

[NJCubScouter]

IMO, adult leader judgement was trusted more. My old SM would credit patrol camping in our town woods but not backyard or family camping.

 

I think I had 4 different SM's (including my father) and they probably would have too, but that was in the 60's and 70's, and I suspect that at that time, the requirements did not read as they did in 1911.  I could look that up, but not right now.

[blw2]

IMO, adult leader judgement was trusted more. My old SM would credit patrol camping in our town woods but not backyard or family camping.

 

yes, i think that's an important element.  Would require much more significant training and orientation I thing to garner a level of consistency....but that would be a great direction to go in my opinion.

 

If son and I go off for an overnight backpacking trip in the local water management preserve, I would honestly think that should count..... but I can perhaps buy that family tailgate camping at the local state park nor KOA might not....

 

But the whole patrol camping thing you mention really is something I would love to see come alive in our troop.  They just don't think like that.... not independent enough to go out on their own, and certainly doubt that it'll ever happen now that they have forced apart friend groups to form their "traditional patrols"....

   I could imagine some day maybe, that if I were to go out on that backpacking trip taht I mentioned earlier with son, he might be encouraged to invite along his buddies....and then it could almost be classified as a patrol outing perhaps....if I decided to stay home.....except they aren't all in the same patrol. 

[EmberMike]

I think a traditional program would struggle even more than the modern program to keep kids interested, especially over the long stretch of time many kids are in this thing from 1st grade through high school.

 

There's a traditional scouting program in the US. I'm not sure what kids think of it but their membership isn't exactly swelling these days. 

[David CO]

If they really feel that a classical scouting program would fail on its own, the liberals ought to give it 100% support, and let it sink or swim.

[Stosh]

One of the biggest problems I see with the classic scouting emphasis is that 1) not many of the adults in the program were either not brought up in it so they have no reference and 2) aren't outdoors people in the first place.  It is as if the "leaders" of today would have a difficult time getting through the FC requirements without first having extensive training just for them.

 

Other than starting the grill with lighter fluid, how many people know how to start a fire?  Without a GPS, how many could find their way using a paper map? How many know basic first aid? etc.Knots and lashings?  No clue.  Camping in a tent?  Yeah, right.

[NJCubScouter]

If they really feel that a classical scouting program would fail on its own, the liberals ought to give it 100% support, and let it sink or swim.

 

Do we really need to put labels on people?

 

Anyway, I haven't noticed anyone in this thread, regardless of supposed ideological orientation, actually opposing a "classical scouting program" in addition to what we have now. No two people seem to agree on what a "classical scouting program" would even look like.  There are more than 100 years worth of options to choose from, and that doesn't even count the mix-and-match varieties.

[qwazse]

I think a traditional program would struggle even more than the modern program to keep kids interested, especially over the long stretch of time many kids are in this thing from 1st grade through high school.

 

There's a traditional scouting program in the US. I'm not sure what kids think of it but their membership isn't exactly swelling these days. 

I think you have a point about what seems to be a cradle-to-grave mentality.

The program in the first few decades seemed focused  on engaging 11-14 year-olds ... and their fathers. If a boy had the time to hang around after that, he was welcome to contribute, but there was an acceptance that most boys would move on to other things.

 

Heck, my SM in the 70s just accepted that football players didn't make Eagle ... until one or two did.

[NJCubScouter]

1) not many of the adults in the program were either not brought up in it so they have no reference

I'm guessing there is one more "not" in that phrase than you intended there to be. Those extra and/or missing "not"s will get you every time.

[Stosh]

I'm guessing there is one more "not" in that phrase than you intended there to be. Those extra and/or missing "not"s will get you every time.

Too many nots, got all tied up.

[SSScout]

1953  Brit First Class Scout Test:   http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/firsttests.pdf

 

Can't find a web copy of the BSA First class requirements from , oh, say 1960's when Morse Code and signaling was still required.  Seems to my poor fevered memory there was more "campcraft" stuff required. 

 

Time required between ranks,   must be First Class to begin earning MBs,   ummmm.

[Stosh]

I remember Morse Code, it was a requirement for 2nd Class.  It held me back for quite some time.  Just couldn't get into it very well.  Later in Civil Air Patrol, I used it a lot, I was a radio operator for search and rescue.

[Rick_in_CA]

1953  Brit First Class Scout Test:   http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/firsttests.pdf

 

Can't find a web copy of the BSA First class requirements from , oh, say 1960's when Morse Code and signaling was still required.  Seems to my poor fevered memory there was more "campcraft" stuff required. 

 

Time required between ranks,   must be First Class to begin earning MBs,   ummmm.

Wow, now that is what BP mean when he said "first class scout"!

 

Of course if we tried this today, we would be sued and then arrested.

 

Just this requirement alone would send multiple people to jail and get CPS involved:

(b) Go on foot, alone or with another Scout, a 24-hour journey of at least 14 miles. In the course of the journey he must cook his own meals, one of which must include meat, over a wood fire in the open; find his camp site and camp for the night. He must carry out any instructions given by the Examiner as to things to be observed en route, and make a log of his journey. He must hand to the Examiner within one week of his return his completed log together with any rough notes made on the journey. A Sea Scout may do this journey partly by water and partly by land - at least 5 miles of the 14 being done on foot. This test should be taken’ last.

 

It's only a matter of time before the lifesaving merit badge replaces actual rescue techniques with "demonstrate how to summon help" and "discuss the dangers of trying to rescue a drowning person".

Edited March 10, 2017 by Rick_in_CA