Troop Meeting Place has a.... stocked bar

[krikkitbot]

The club charters both the pack and the troop. The pack meets at the church, and they are aware. Never said a word.

 

A few months ago, we helped with a trash pickup. While we were there, lots of club members walking around with open containers, guns waving around, etc..... I was uncomfortable, so were the other leaders that were with. 

 

We were offered to fundraise during open shoots, but my leadership is concerned about the open containers at these events too.

I'm confused.

 

Were the people who were drinking waving guns around?

 

Were people, who were not drinking, waving guns around or were they wearing open carry and that made you uncomfortable?

 

Or were there some people drinking and some different people carrying guns? Were either of the activities illegal?

[NJCubScouter]

The Chartered Organization owns the unit.  The decision is ultimately theirs to make.

 

As others have pointed out, a unit does not necessarily have to meet at the CO.  

[Col. Flagg]

Alcohol I'm not too concerned about, if its kept secure.  But if it's a smoking-allowed room, absolutely not, even if no one is smoking when scouts are present.  Can't abide the stink.

 

That's a health issue. Same would hold for mold or dust or heat or any other meeting space that put people's health at risk. 

 

Looking at booze bottles is no more a danger than looking at Cindy Charles in a Scout uniform.

[David CO]

As others have pointed out, a unit does not necessarily have to meet at the CO.  

 

They do if the Chartered Organization says they do.

[Cubmaster Pete]

I'm confused.

 

Were the people who were drinking waving guns around?

 

Were people, who were not drinking, waving guns around or were they wearing open carry and that made you uncomfortable?

 

Or were there some people drinking and some different people carrying guns? Were either of the activities illegal?

 

A little of both.

 

I was put off by the behavior of some club members while we were there. They knew we were there, they saw us, and were not setting a great example as adults, IMHO.

 

I am not uncomfortable with booze, or guns. Mixing the two bothers me, and booze has no place in scouting.

[RememberSchiff]

They do if the Chartered Organization says they do.

 

According the Unit Charter Agreement the CO has to "ensure appropriate facilities for the unit for its regular meetings to facilitate the aims of the Chartered Organization AND Scouting.

 

So it is more by mutual agreement IMO and hopefully everyone wants to do what is best for our kids.

Edited March 8, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[David CO]

According the Unit Charter Agreement the CO has to "ensure appropriate facilities for the unit for its regular meetings to facilitate the aims of the Chartered Organization AND Scouting.

 

So it is more by mutual agreement IMO and hopefully everyone wants to do what is best for our kids.

 

If it is by mutual agreement, and I'm not saying it is, then it is an agreement between the CO and BSA.  It is not a mutual agreement between the CO and the unit leaders.  

 

The CO owns the unit, and the unit leaders serve at the pleasure of the CO.

[Stosh]

I think there are two separate issues being discussed here.  The first is a safety issue.  The second is an image issue.

 

Yeh, I had to put the stop on the boys going into the bar and getting the free popcorn there.  The image issue was a concern.  I told them that if they wanted popcorn, buy some and we can make it up in the kitchen.  They never questioned it after that. 

 

There was a second bar in the banquet hall were the boys met and although the boys used the stools to sit on during patrol meetings, they never went behind the bar.

 

The only concern I had is when the IH would come to "see how the boys were doing." and would be a bit over-consumed with a high-ball in his hand...... and the boys knew he had had too much.  We discussed it amongst ourselves and that was the end of it.

 

I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Stosh

[frankpalazzi]

If the sight of a few booze bottles might curdle the milk then may I suggest:

 

-A few cardboard boxes to cover the "offending" containers?

-Asking the CO to move the bottles beneath the bar/out of sight? (They really should be doing this anyway.)

-Then of course there remains the issue of the BAR STRUCTURE. (How offensive!)  Just declare the area OFF LIMITS to all Scouts and Scouters.  If you see someone head toward that area, speak up. Worked for us meeting in an American Legion function hall.  10 years, never a problem.

 

If the above steps don't solve the "problem," then meet across town on a different night.

 

Thank God you have a CO that cares enough to host a Pack/Troop.  A good CO is hard to find these days.  Just be thankful and stop making waves.  Concentrate on your program.

 

You'll never make everyone happy no matter what you do.

Edited March 9, 2017 by RememberSchiff
Overly derogatory

[qwazse]

... I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity. 

I suppose that's why Dad had us working middle school summers with a driver delivering beer in and out of every bar in the county.

 

One summer was enough for me ... after that I lined up back-to-back camps and home-improvement projects.

 

When we meet at the sportsman's club for training, the RSO (a former SM) asks to clear the bar so the boys can sit there.  It's much easier to instruct the boys while they are seated at the stools around the "U".

[bearess]

Yeh, I had to put the stop on the boys going into the bar and getting the free popcorn there.  The image issue was a concern.  I told them that if they wanted popcorn, buy some and we can make it up in the kitchen.  They never questioned it after that. 

 

There was a second bar in the banquet hall were the boys met and although the boys used the stools to sit on during patrol meetings, they never went behind the bar.

 

The only concern I had is when the IH would come to "see how the boys were doing." and would be a bit over-consumed with a high-ball in his hand...... and the boys knew he had had too much.  We discussed it amongst ourselves and that was the end of it.

 

I think there is a direct ratio between adult hysteria and youth curiosity.

 

I agree, and I didn't grow up to be hysterical about alcohol (or guns). My kids see me drink, and they occasionally have a (very small) glass of wine or beer. BUT I'd be very concerned about the liability of having unsecured alcohol around underage kids. If the bar is in sight- but adequately secured- I'd have no issue. But in sight and unsecured- that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[Back Pack]

Is anyone worried about unsecured alcohol in a troop where all pocket knives, axes and saws are secured when their kids are around?

 

What happened to teaching responsibility?

[Stosh]

Secured?  In plain sight of all adult leaders?  Heck I don't have my alcohol at home "secured" other than being in a cabinet above the stove,  If I was all that worried about it I could always turn the stove on when my grandkids are around to deter them from crawling up there to get at the booze. 

 

I guess I'll have to retink my strategy when I have MB boys over to the hosue.  The 5 gal jug in the back room of fermenting grapes might be too much for them to handle.

 

With my kids,  the teaching moments were enough that they don't seem to be big in the party scene and alcohol is no big deal to them.  When I stop buy to visit the grandkids, I generally get offered soda because I always turn a beer or  glass of wine down because I'm driving.  They have asked that we try and remember to put our conceal carry items in the glove box before coming into the house.  On the other hand my other daughter has asked me to teach her how to use weapons because she and her husband want to have self protection in her home.  Every lesson needs to be formulated specifically for every person.  Wide sweeping hysteria never really worked for me, but specific dialog lessons seem to work the best. 

 

The patrol that would meet in the corner with the banquet bar were gently reminded not to go behind the bar because we didn't want to get kicked out of our meeting place.  Because of that we never had to mention the issue again.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Stosh

[tyke]

It's a bar, not an opium den, so as long as the kids arn't helping themselves does it matter? Loads of scout camps in the UK have bars on site, and lots of scout events take place in sports clubs with bars

[qwazse]

It's a bar, not an opium den, so as long as the kids arn't helping themselves does it matter? Loads of scout camps in the UK have bars on site, and lots of scout events take place in sports clubs with bars

Different country, @@tyke.

 

The working assumption is that kids (especially 14-20 year olds) will help themselves ... in violation of federal and state statutes. Therefore the property owners must take due diligence to secure all alcoholic drinks, or they will be liable for harm to the kids or caused by the kids resulting from their "helping" themselves. A litigious parent could file suit for negligence if a boy merely posed with a bottle or case that he never even opened. The suit would likely fall flat, but the time and dollars spent defending it would discourage further sponsorship of a troop.

 

So, a club has to be very alert to that.

 

Camps don't allow alcohol on the premises ... a challenge for some of our leaders.

 

Unlike on your side of the pond, most parents prefer a culture where kids come nowhere near pubs, so the pattern is reinforced.

Edited March 17, 2017 by qwazse