Ditch the Neckerchief

[EmberMike]

Just because a boy wears a Cubs cap or a Twins cap or a Brewers cap, doesn't make him a baseball player. 

 

Oh come on. This is just too much. When a youth is wearing the logo or a symbol of a youth organization, it's no stretch of the imagination that they are a part of that organization. 

 

Would you seriously expect to see a kid wearing a BSA hat if they're not a scout? 

[Stosh]

No, but there's the dork factor that has to be considered with a BSA hat. I don't wear baseball style caps.....ever.  So I'm not going to wear the baseball style BSA hat.....ever.  I do wear the expedition hat and the campaign hat and the garrison cap when I wear my 1960's uniform.  For some unknown reason I get a lot of compliments when I wear my expedition hat and when I wear a civilian expedition style hat.   I guess the dork factor doesn't apply to that hat.

[Back Pack]

The Dork Factor always applies. Whether one hears it or not is another question altogether.

[Stosh]

Gee, that must mean that on hot days in the garden I'm full blown dork?  Is that what is being implied?

[EmberMike]

No, but there's the dork factor that has to be considered with a BSA hat. I don't wear baseball style caps.....ever.  So I'm not going to wear the baseball style BSA hat.....ever.  I do wear the expedition hat and the campaign hat and the garrison cap when I wear my 1960's uniform.  For some unknown reason I get a lot of compliments when I wear my expedition hat and when I wear a civilian expedition style hat.   I guess the dork factor doesn't apply to that hat.

 

Ok, maybe a baseball hat isn't your thing, but there are other ways to look like a scout. A garrison hat pretty much screams "scout". Same for a campaign hat. 

 

My point was that a necker isn't the exclusive means by which to identify as a scout, and I think this discussion proved my point. 

[Stosh]

Ok, maybe a baseball hat isn't your thing, but there are other ways to look like a scout. A garrison hat pretty much screams "scout". Same for a campaign hat. 

 

Garrison caps scream American Legion and VFW in today's world, they are the only ones left using them.  Except with a historical uniform, I haven't seen a scout or scouter wear a garrison cap since I was a lad.

 

Campaign hat scream State and County law enforcement in today's world, they are the only ones left using them on a regular basis. except for the military.  I would say they wear more often than any Scout or Scouter.

 

My point was that a necker isn't the exclusive means by which to identify as a scout, and I think this discussion proved my point. 

 

Other han scouting, I can't think of anyone using a necker as a piece of clothing except for Scouts and Scouters.  Anyone know of anyone other than scouts that does?

 

Sorry /2@EmberMike I don't think the evidence supports it.  Neckers win hands down.

[Eagle94-A1]

"Campaign hat scream State and County law enforcement in today's world, they are the only ones left using them on a regular basis. except for the military.  I would say they wear more often than any Scout or Scouter."

 

Do not forget park rangers. I used to wear my smokey camping, but after getting confused with a park ranger for the second time, I wear the expedition hat on public lands.

[Col. Flagg]

Other han scouting, I can't think of anyone using a necker as a piece of clothing except for Scouts and Scouters.  Anyone know of anyone other than scouts that does?

Flight attendants, chefs, people on holiday, anyone involved in fashion, cowboys, gold miners, actors, train engineers, Clint Eastwood to hide his [edited] big boo boo [/edited], etc. And that was just googling "guys who wear neckerchiefs".

 

[sad in this day and age we need to advise Scouts -- who we trust with knives, fire and other dangerous stuff -- not to do something painfully obvious]

Edited March 6, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[qwazse]

... Clint Eastwood to hid his hanging scar ...

Scouts reading this: please, no hanging scars! Your SM really does not deserve to be saddled with the paperwork involved in that one.

Remember, Mr. Eastwood's was applied by a make-up artist.

The neckerchief, however, was quite real, quite cool, and quite straightforward to imitate with a modicum of paperwork.

[Stosh]

Flight attendants, chefs, people on holiday, anyone involved in fashion, cowboys, gold miners, actors, train engineers, Clint Eastwood to hid his hanging scar, etc. And that was just googling "guys who wear neckerchiefs".

 

Scarves or Neckerchief????  I wear scarves all the time in the winter and never get identified as a scout.

 

Most "cowboys" wore neckers, but inside the shirt.  It was often used to keep the trail dust out of their lungs when they rode the rear of the herd or was robbing the local bank.  It was also a towel, wash cloth, etc. same type of camp usage as expected of the scout.  The military carried "handkerchiefs" which were 36" square, and were often tucked in coat pockets or tied around the neck.  Most of these were made of silk so that they could be easily dried and compressed into a pocket without creating a lump.

 

Just because it is worn around the neck it isn't a neckerchief.  It might be a tie, a scarf, or such that wouldn't be worn in the way the scouts wore it, woggled or fastened with some sort of "slide" and triangled outside the garment hanging down in back. 

 

"Campaign hat scream State and County law enforcement in today's world, they are the only ones left using them on a regular basis. except for the military.  I would say they wear more often than any Scout or Scouter."

 

Do not forget park rangers. I used to wear my smokey camping, but after getting confused with a park ranger for the second time, I wear the expedition hat on public lands.

 

I thought of that when writing it, but technically park rangers are law enforcement personnel either on the federal, state, or county levels.  If we had a national police force, they would probably wear the campaign hat in the same manner the RCMP in Canada wears them.

[Chadamus]

Fred Jones' ascot has been curiously absent from this discussion...

[Stosh]

Ascots are not neckers, they are silk scarves. 

 

Ask the question, how many neckerchiefs are tied and now many are fastened with some sort of slide or piece of jewelry.  Cowboys wore what would be referred to as a bandana and would not necessarily be easily distinguished from others without chaps, riding boots, spurs and a wide brimmed hat.  Others who rode for reasons other than herding cows tended to wear dusters and did not need any other protective clothing other than a wide brimmed hat.

 

A woman wearing a fashion piece of cloth around her neck would most likely have it described as a scarf, not a neckerchief and it usually was pinned or loosely tied with it hung to the front rather than to the back.  These "neckers" were purely ornamental and totally without practical use, just like the men's dress tie, which if one had a very vivid imagination could define it as a "necker" as well. 

 

It's kinda like the fire alarm going off in a building one is not familiar with.  It might be a really different noise than what you are accustomed to, but you know it's a fire alarm!

 

I read once that when people drag their fingernails on a chalk board, the noise it makes is identical to the noise monkeys make to warn the others of an impending danger.  Thus the natural reaction to it yet today even in humans. 

 

http://www.livescience.com/57106-why-fingernails-on-chalkboard-hurts.html

 

Like auditory, visual cues work the same way.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Stosh

[MattR]

Is dorkiness how others see someone that is wearing a neckerchief or how someone sees himself wearing a neckerchief?

 

These scouts are not dorky. They are having fun.
 

 

I find it strange that it's difficult to find pictures on the internet of BSA Boy Scouts having fun in a "full" uniform. I think the dork factor comes from the adult perception of scouts. The whole attitude around the uniform is serious and the only thing the scouts can push back on is the neckerchief. A shirt that's called a Field Uniform, costs anywhere from $37-$45 and needs to be ironed is not shouting fun. Shirts with pockets are not fun. The idea of uniform is great. But it has to support fun.

 

We sell activity shirts for something like $6. So make a $12 shirt that isn't a nightmare to sew patches onto and doesn't feel like saran wrap in the summer time, and scouts might just forget they're wearing a uniform and leave it on when they get to camp.

[Col. Flagg]

You said...
 

Other han scouting, I can't think of anyone using a necker as a piece of clothing except for Scouts and Scouters.  Anyone know of anyone other than scouts that does?

So I pointed out "anyone" who uses "a necker as a piece of clothing" other than Scouts. I guess you were surprised there were so many?
 

Ask the question, how many neckerchiefs are tied and now many are fastened with some sort of slide or piece of jewelry.  Cowboys wore what would be referred to as a bandana and would not necessarily be easily distinguished from others without chaps, riding boots, spurs and a wide brimmed hat.  Others who rode for reasons other than herding cows tended to wear dusters and did not need any other protective clothing other than a wide brimmed hat.

Depends on your definition. One could argue they would need to see a uniform, hat and other stuff to immediately consider someone a Scout. A simple necker just won't have most people thinking, "My God! There's a Scout!!"
 

A woman wearing a fashion piece of cloth around her neck would most likely have it described as a scarf, not a neckerchief and it usually was pinned or loosely tied with it hung to the front rather than to the back.  These "neckers" were purely ornamental and totally without practical use, just like the men's dress tie, which if one had a very vivid imagination could define it as a "necker" as well.

Google it. There's a few good ideas here of who else wore neckers. HINT: It wasn't just Scouts.
 
Any yes, it does acknowledge as Scouts being the most recent group. But your point (above) was that they weren't the only group. Any Navy non-comm would tell you that.
 


So...not just for Scouts.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[qwazse]

@Col. FlaggThat ain't no friendship knot. So, not even close.

Yes, the reds and the Nazi's appropriated symbols of patriotism and righteousness ... ends justifying the means and all that.

 

But even if a trade/government/public/other group appropriates the fashion to the same visual effect, they are to large degree doing so because of what scouting has made of it.

 

But to poke at Mike and 'BPack a little more ... the thread's title is basically a call on the rest of us to abandon a practice because "my boys don't like it / they think its dumb / they feel itchy with it on" and any other number of whiny excuses. In other words "Because I can't have fun with it, you shouldn't either."

 

It's like filing a cease and desist order while at the party. It's a pretty lame way to stop the dancing. At best people will keep asking you to hop on the dance floor with them. At worst you'll succeed in shutting it down and having everyone around you resent you for it.