Ditch the Neckerchief

[The Latin Scot]

Shouldn't we be encouraging them to make their own decision about this optional part of the uniform? I'd love to see some thoughtful debate among the boys about the pros/cons, personal opinions, etc., leading up to a vote on the topic. 

 

I don't perceive your thoughts and mine as being mutually exclusive.    We can certainly teach, inform, and encourage the boys in regards to the history and usefulness of the neckerchief, and then teach, inform, and encourage the boys to make their own decision as per the patrol method, which of course we should treat as all but sacrosanct. We aren't making the decision for them, but we are giving them a solid context for the issue which they can weigh and consider in discussion. 

 

ALSO: I have a question; do your fellows' units choose their neckerchiefs by patrol or by troop? In our local unit each patrol uses a different neckerchief , usually in their patrol colors, so each patrol is distinguished by their necker, their flag, and their patrol medallion. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by The Latin Scot

[Col. Flagg]

Quick question, were your TC parents troop alumni?

 

Nope. Just parents that wanted to see the necker kept. But they don't have to put up with the thing, so in the end the kids prevailed.

 

When these parents come on events they always encourage the boys to wear them. When they arrive and see no one wearing them they are taken off. In fact, the SPL says "If one person is missing them, we will all not wear them." Very Heartbreak Ridge. 

[EmberMike]

By way of "encouraging," does that include warning them that they run the hazard that any scout from anywhere else in the world (from any other time in history) will, upon seeing them in their pretty tan shirts and glorious epaulets, challenge them with, "Where's your neckerchief?"

 

 

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself. Maybe at World Jambo it might be a question kids get, but generally, not likely. Besides, look at the co-ed thread discussion and you'll see plenty of opposition to doing anything in the BSA simply because it's done in other countries. 

 

In fact, a more likely question from a non-US scout would be, "Where are the girls?" 

[Stosh]

I was in a gift shop in Banff AB and I saw a couple of kids wearing neckers, co-ed group, all different colored neckers.  I simply asked, "Where are you Scouts from?"  The conversation lasted quite a while.  They were from Thunder Bay, just down the road a piece from my neck of the woods.  Without the neckers I would never have started the conversation and without a uniform, it was just a speculative guess.

[Eagle94-A1]

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself. Maybe at World Jambo it might be a question kids get, but generally, not likely. Besides, look at the co-ed thread discussion and you'll see plenty of opposition to doing anything in the BSA simply because it's done in other countries. 

 

In fact, a more likely question from a non-US scout would be, "Where are the girls?" 

 

My first encounter with a British female Scout was in the US hiking with my troop as a youth. We thought she was a Girl Scout ( Girl Guide in the UK) because the only uniform item on was a neckerchief. Great conversation. I still got that neckerchief I traded my belt and all the Skill Awards for.

[qwazse]

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself.

Every crew meeting and activity the Italian exchange student can make.

And, occasional Sunday dinners ... Some weekdays when the college is closed. (That was when the Czech scout saw Son #2 and his buddy on the way to a meeting neckerless.) ... And the occasional baby shower/wine tasting party of 50 year old former patrol members.

Comes from teaching our kids to talk to strangers. The random scouts are among the strangest.

Maybe at World Jambo it might be a question kids get, but generally, not likely. Besides, look at the co-ed thread discussion and you'll see plenty of opposition to doing anything in the BSA simply because it's done in other countries. 

But, this isn't a different country. Troops 1/4 mile apart in the same town decided differently weather or not to break ranks with the most original part of their uniform.

In fact, a more likely question from a non-US scout would be, "Where are the girls?"

.... The older ones who are trying to find a scouting community for there kids do ask that.

[Back Pack]

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself.

 

We see folks from California all the time. Does that count?

[The Latin Scot]

Wait what part of California? Because people from the Northern half might as well be from another country if you ask me, lol.

[EmberMike]

Sorry guys, I'm not buying it. There are a dozen ways to identify as scouts, neckers are just one option. Hats, t-shirts, patches, etc., stuff kids wear even outside of scouting activities. Any kid wearing something with a BSA symbol/text/trefoil on it is going to be recognizable as a scout. 

 

I'd even argue that we'd likely see kids wear scout gear more often and outside of scout functions if we were encouraging them to wear a scout hat than a necker. What kid would wear a necker alone while not at a pack/troop activity? I can already hear resistance I'd get if I told my son to wear a necker to school one day. But a hat? He'd be happy to. He's got a camp patch sewn on to his backpack. 

[Back Pack]

Neckers belong with knee socks and garters. Campaign hats for all? Wool uniforms?

 

Neckers were add on to the original uniform. Then there's how neckers are worn? All rolled up like a bandana or draped like we do in the US?

[qwazse]

@@EmberMike and @@Back PackYou may think you sound all "scouting for the 21st century", but in the process you are discounting scouts who aren't living in your bubble.

 

True, the necker was standardized as part of the uniform "only" in the 1930s. So, it's been a moniker of the organization for a measly 90% of its existence.

 

Now, with the rise of specialized manufacture, units can get any style they desire produced on demand. (Which is probably why BSA is going out of the necker business.) I'm actually kind of glad BSA is getting out of the custom neckerchief business, and looking forward to see what youth come up with

 

Hats? I've seen more styles come and go than any other clothing feature. Worse, if you don't like your troop's hat, there's no folding it in your pocket! Good luck getting all the scouts in the nation to settle on one of those.

 

Meanwhile, that piece of cloth is not officially part of the venturing uniform, yet I see more area and regional venturing leaders with a necker than I ever did 10 years ago.

[SSScout]

Once upon a time, a boy joined a Scout Troop.  He had been a Cub Scout, had heard from older friends that this Troop went camping and stuff like that, and it sounded fun to him.  His dad and mom said okay, and signed him up .  At the "joining" meeting, the Scoutmaster had a little ceremony to welcome him and the other new boys into the Troop.  He presented the boys with the Troop shoulder patches (number, town name, state ) and talked alittle about the Troop's history, which back then wasn't too long, being only five years, but they had been to Philmont,  and had hiked some of the Appalachian Trail.

 

The new Scout, now much older with a grown, adult Eagle son of his own,  remembers the Scoutmaster presenting lastly the new Scouts with the Troop's bright red neckerchief. He said that it had been designed by boys in the Troop, and noted the motto on the tag end , "Always On The Go". He warned the new Scouts that it was a motto not to follow, but to live up to, that they should never be afraid to go places and do things, that they were now Scouts and should never, ever sit still for too long.  He then asked the Patrol Leaders to come up and welcome the new Scouts into their Patrols.  Everyone clapped and cheered. 

 

Then we practiced knots and planned the next camping at "The Property".

 

The  same Troop no longer has a "Property", now has a generic, stock BSA necker,  it is light blue. The Scoutmaster of today is new and learning how to encourage Patrol activities. The Scouts sit at their tables and wait for someone (an adult?) to tell them what to do.....

[EmberMike]

Hats? I've seen more styles come and go than any other clothing feature. Worse, if you don't like your troop's hat, there's no folding it in your pocket! Good luck getting all the scouts in the nation to settle on one of those.

 

I'm a little lost on this one. I don't recall suggesting a nationally standardized hat. If that's what you were getting at. 

 

If hats aren't your thing, what about t-shirts? Remember I was talking about hats in the context of something worn when not in uniform that serves to identify someone as a scout. Surely a t-shirt can't be problematic. Or does that also need to be able to be stuffed in a pocket?

[TAHAWK]

EmberMike, on 02 Mar 2017 - 6:10 PM, said:

How often do you run into scouts from other countries? Might be just me, but I have yet to meet one myself.

 

 

I have Scouted in Mexico four times and Canada eleven times.

 

Scots Scouts visited our museum a couple of years ago.

 

Norwegian, Japanese and Scots Scouts visited our camporee on the was to a Jamboree.

 

Then there is the Internet.  

Edited March 3, 2017 by TAHAWK

[Col. Flagg]

@@EmberMike and @@Back PackYou may think you sound all "scouting for the 21st century", but in the process you are discounting scouts who aren't living in your bubble.

 

Well, there's be a whole lot of change in the last four years. Why can't the necker be one of those things sacrificed on the alter of progressiveness? In all seriousness, we seem to be protecting a piece of cloth more than the REAL foundation of Boy Scouting. This is an ironic and amusing dichotomy.