Ditch the Neckerchief

[The Latin Scot]

I am 100% in favor of neckerchiefs, and 100% opposed to co-ed Scouting. In my chartered organization we don't even have girls in our Venturing program, which I am glad of.

 

I am also barely into my thirties, which I know is unusual since many people my age are all about "changing things up," but I am a traditionalist and prefer to remain very conservative in my BSA views. It has worked for 107 years, so I think there are values and patterns inherent in the program that the world needs now more than ever.

Edited February 28, 2017 by The Latin Scot

[Col. Flagg]

I am 100% in favor of neckerchiefs, and 100% opposed to co-ed Scouting. In my chartered organization we don't even have girls in our Venturing program, which I am glad of.

 

I am also barely into my thirties, which I know is unusual since many people my age are all about "changing things up," but I am a traditionalist and prefer to remain very conservative in my BSA views. It has worked for 107 years, so I think there are values and patterns inherent in the program that the world needs now more than ever.

 

But -- and I infer this from our handle -- are Scottish, so change is not in your nature.  And, of course, if it's not Scottish, it's c**p! [We were all thinking it...I just said it]

 

I say this as a proud member of the Lamont Clan!

Edited February 28, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[Cambridgeskip]

Ditching the necker was seriously talked about in the UK in the late 90s as part of the big overhaul of uniform. They were kept in the end because the kids demanded it! The scouts themselves wear them with real pride at district and county events. There's always inter troop rivalry and the different colours of troop neckers helps reinforce that. From my perspective I like them as it helps distinguish my scouts from other troops at a distance.

[The Latin Scot]

But -- and I infer this from our handle -- are Scottish, so change is not in your nature.  And, of course, if it's not Scottish, it's c**p! [We were all thinking it...I just said it]

 

I say this as a proud member of the Lamont Clan!

Ah, well then in that case @@Col. Flagg, Ceud mìle fàilte agus slàinte mhath from Clan Ross!

 

And @@Cambridgeskip, that makes me happy to hear that the youth on Scouting's home turf are so fond of their neckerchiefs! I love seeing the different color neckers from Troop to Troop at large Scouting events. It really does promote patrol unity and team spirit when the neckerchief is given meaning in the patrol's mind! For example, one of our patrols is the "Knights of Light" patrol. Their patch is a smart-looking silver knight's helmet, their flag is in the shape of a large shield in black and white with the silver helmet emblazoned in the center, and they now wear their new black neckerchiefs with silver trim. The necker' reinforces their patrol colors (black and silver), and distinguishes them from other patrols at Scout Camp, Camporee, etc. And now that they have them (we only recently purchased them for the whole patrol), they wear them EVERYWHERE. And if I may say so, the black looks particularly smart against the olives and greens of the Centennial uniform.   

 

When you give the uniform meaning in a Scout's mind, he comes to value it far more than than any sense of embarrassment could ever override. 

[desertrat77]

By all means, let's ditch the crummy, small, made-from-fibers-not-found-in nature neckerchief that National pushed for about three decades.   Barely useful as a first aid cravat, and usually too small even for that.

 

Get an old, full-square cotton neckerchief.   Or make one from scratch.

 

Night and day.

[The Latin Scot]

Actually National supply has quit making them. They are now only selling what is left in their inventory.

 

Where did you hear this? Source? I have been in communication with people from my local scout shop, scoutstuff.org, national supply, even scoutingmagazine.org; and so far nobody has heard anything about this. I would be extremely surprised to learn that the BSA isn't producing neckerchiefs as part of their uniform wear anymore. Are they not making socks, or hats, or Scout shirts either? This sounds mighty suspect if you ask me.

[TAHAWK]

Scoutstuff only has the "custom" models fro sale.

 

I some countries, the necker IS the uniform.

[Eagle94-A1]

Where did you hear this? Source? I have been in communication with people from my local scout shop, scoutstuff.org, national supply, even scoutingmagazine.org; and so far nobody has heard anything about this. I would be extremely surprised to learn that the BSA isn't producing neckerchiefs as part of their uniform wear anymore. Are they not making socks, or hats, or Scout shirts either? This sounds mighty suspect if you ask me.

 

 

Local council shop. 3 of the neckers the troop used have been discontinued. If you go to scoutstuff.org and look up neckerchief, you will onlt find the three neckerchiefs in addition to the specialty and Cub Scout ones.

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/screen-printed-bsa-emblem-neckerchiefs.html#.WLZQT_LdUo0     and only 3 of the styles remain ( I want to say about 30 printed ones when I use to work in supply in the 90s and 2000s)

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa-neckerchief-with-universal-emblem-embroidery.html#.WLZQC_LdUo0 And we were told once they were gone, they were gone.

[The Latin Scot]

Hmm. My Scout Shop hasn't heard anything about inventory being limited. And as far as the online store goes, I find TONS of different neckerchiefs available!

 

The online store says these are all "in stock." No indication whatsoever of limited supplies:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa-neckerchief-with-universal-emblem-embroidery.html

 

Or you can get a customized neckerchief, again no indication of low quanitities:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/custom-neckerchiefs.html

 

If you have an Eagle coming up soon, get him an Eagle necker:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/eagle-scoutr-printed-neckerchief-new-size.html

 

It even comes embroidered if you want to be extra-fancy:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/eagle-scoutr-embroidered-neckerchief-new-size.html

 

Cub Scouts have the full set of neckers for every rank:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-tc.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/wolf-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/bear-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/webelos-youth-neckerchief.html

 

Of course Cub Scout leaders have their own set to choose from:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/tiger-cub-leader-neckerchief-new-size.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/cub-scouttm-leader-neckerchief-new-size.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/webelos-leader-neckerchief.html

 

And there is a huge variety for adult leaders of every position:

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neckerchief-international-adt.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/national-camping-school-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/national-camping-school-neckerchief.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neckerchief-commissioner.html

 

There are neckers for Scout Sunday and Sea Scouts, even full square options for the upcoming Jamboree!

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-sea-scout-triangular.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/neck-scout-sun-orn-2016.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/nj17-neck-bandana-map.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/nj17-neck-bandana-survival.html

 

If you ask me, they aren't getting rid of the neckerchief any time soon. And there is another possibility that hasn't been considered - if they are in fact phasing these out, it could just as easily be to make room for more, new neckerchiefs that could take their place. If we're lucky, full squares too! I hardly think these are signs of the BSA getting rid of such a crucial part of the organizations uniform and history. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by The Latin Scot

[ianwilkins]

If you went co-ed you should keep the necker so that girls can use them as headscarves and headbands to keep their mane of hair out of their eyes whilst doing stuff. 

 

Also from the UK, some are quite happy wearing the necker when out and about, some are not, last time I had to give out grief about it*, they left shortly after, despite seemingly enjoying what we did. Pure peer pressure. Ho hum, can't win 'em all.

 

* Day trip to the London 2012 Olympic Park. We had 20 UK Explorers, and 20 Portuguese Pioneiros, I told them they'd get a rocket up them if I caught them without a necker on. The small group that hung around the shopping mall next door all day got caught several times without necker, well, the English ones anyway, who insisted it really wasn't cool, but didn't mind at all walking around with some Portuguese that were fine with wearing it...go figure. Meanwhile us leaders wandered around the park and ended up playing badminton with some random children in one of the Olympic venues, so that was pretty cool. We kept our neckers on.

 

In the UK, no talk of dropping the necker, but some bemoan what they see as the death of the woggle (slide), with the friendship knot being a much more common sight these days. In fact, when HQ people are on telly doing media stuff they seem to always go with the friendship knot, which has lead some more cynical than I to create the label "woggleless wonders". Yes, they probably need to have a word with themselves.

[qwazse]

If you went co-ed you should keep the necker so that girls can use them as headscarves and headbands to keep their mane of hair out of their eyes whilst doing stuff.   ....

hmmm ... Might work for several of our boys that way.

[Eagle94-A1]

Latin Scout,

 

But if you look at the ones whole troops wear, there are the limits I mentioned. BSA use to make a whole lot more of the Boy Scout neckers. The troop is one of the older troops in the council with a long history, and a very specific color scheme. That color scheme is no longer made by BSA. PLC decided to go with a similar color scheme. Guess what, national quit making that one too. We found out when we went to order the 2nd necker for some new Scouts, and was told they are no longer made. SM made a decision on the spot for the 3rd necker. When we got another group of new Scouts, we attempted to order  the 3rd necker from the local council, only to be told they are no longer made.  Some of the Scouts donated their neckers for the ceremony. That was when we went the custom route, and doing it ourselves instead of relying on national. Instead of Scouts wearing 3 different neckers, or none at all, we are making our own.

 

But looking online I just noticed the red with white imprint, the 3rd neckerchief, can still be ordered from national supply. All I can think is that the local council shop didn't want to be stuck with inventory that will be discontinued soon and they will be stuck with. 

[RememberSchiff]

Wouldn't it be nice if Scouting Heritage MB had a requirement to explain the why of wearing a neckerchief and wear one for an activity or period of time? Does the merit badge pamphlet mention the neckerchief?

Edited March 1, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[Eagle94-A1]

Wouldn't it be nice if Scouting Heritage MB had a requirement to explain the why of wearing a neckerchief and wear a one for an activity or period of time? Does the merit badge pamphlet mention the neckerchief?

 

Agree, and no it does last I checked.

 

But the pamphlet also doesn't even mention "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. Waite Phillips did a great thing giving Philmont to us. But not everyone goes there. Whereas every Scout and adult from 1929 until 1972, and then again from 1979 to 1989 had been affected by "Green Bar Bill" by reading his books, Boys' Life articles, and going through training he put together. IMHO Bill did a lot more than Phillips ever did.

[RememberSchiff]

Agree, and no it does last I checked.

 

But the pamphlet also doesn't even mention "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt. Waite Phillips did a great thing giving Philmont to us. But not everyone goes there. Whereas every Scout and adult from 1929 until 1972, and then again from 1979 to 1989 had been affected by "Green Bar Bill" by reading his books, Boys' Life articles, and going through training he put together. IMHO Bill did a lot more than Phillips ever did.

Time for a major revision.