Ditch the Neckerchief

[TAHAWK]

 

 

qwazse, remember the three adults who were picked to the the poster persons for the fitness program a few years ago?  (Tons of Fun.)

qwazse

[Col. Flagg]

Bandannas are the new necker.

[The Latin Scot]

Well, looks like it tough talk time.

 

For all you leaders who say "the boys don't like them" or "nobody wants to wear them" or whatever your line is - don't blame the boys if you, as a leader, don't know how to get them excited about something like a neckerchief. The fact is, a skilled and perceptive leader will know how to get boys excited about anything, especially since at this age, boys are inclined towards having a number of subjects that they find especially fascinating or that they are particularly good at. If you are a really understanding leader, you will know how to make something like the uniform, yes, even the neckerchief, relevant - even EXCITING - for the boys in your Troop. 

 

For more than a generation my Troop has been infamously apathetic towards the uniform; just wearing the shirt, even unbuttoned, was looked on as "trying." All I needed was a few months of showing cool old photos, fun tricks with neckerchiefs, and a grossly exaggerated excitement over new Scout socks or a homemade woggle - soon and sure enough the boys started building up the desire to look right and to show pride in their uniforms because, gosh darn it, Mr. The Latin Scot (not what they actually call me) seems to think they are so cool, so I guess they really are so cool! And now he tells us each patrol can have their own specially colored neckerchief to match their patrol flag colors?! "That's AWESOME Scouts is so cool!" - actual quote from Scout when told by Mr. The Latin Scot that such a thing was in fact true.

 

So, really, you can get them excited. And I think the neckerchief is the most useful, the most iconic, the most practical AND the most appealing part of the Scout uniform. And millions of Scouts around the world have felt the same way. 

[Stosh]

As I mentioned before my boys wear blaze orange with black trim.  For Christmas they all got black paracord woggles to go with it.  They haven't lost one yet.

 

Well, looks like it tough talk time.

 

For all you leaders who say "the boys don't like them" or "nobody wants to wear them" or whatever your line is - don't blame the boys if you, as a leader, don't know how to get them excited about something like a neckerchief. The fact is, a skilled and perceptive leader will know how to get boys excited about anything, especially since at this age, boys are inclined towards having a number of subjects that they find especially fascinating or that they are particularly good at. If you are a really understanding leader, you will know how to make something like the uniform, yes, even the neckerchief, relevant - even EXCITING - for the boys in your Troop. 

 

For more than a generation my Troop has been infamously apathetic towards the uniform; just wearing the shirt, even unbuttoned, was looked on as "trying." All I needed was a few months of showing cool old photos, fun tricks with neckerchiefs, and a grossly exaggerated excitement over new Scout socks or a homemade woggle - soon and sure enough the boys started building up the desire to look right and to show pride in their uniforms because, gosh darn it, Mr. The Latin Scot (not what they actually call me) seems to think they are so cool, so I guess they really are so cool! And now he tells us each patrol can have their own specially colored neckerchief to match their patrol flag colors?! "That's AWESOME Scouts is so cool!" - actual quote from Scout when told by Mr. The Latin Scot that such a thing was in fact true.

 

So, really, you can get them excited. And I think the neckerchief is the most useful, the most iconic, the most practical AND the most appealing part of the Scout uniform. And millions of Scouts around the world have felt the same way. 

[Col. Flagg]

Well, looks like it tough talk time.

 

For all you leaders who say "the boys don't like them" or "nobody wants to wear them" or whatever your line is - don't blame the boys if you, as a leader, don't know how to get them excited about something like a neckerchief. The fact is, a skilled and perceptive leader will know how to get boys excited about anything, especially since at this age, boys are inclined towards having a number of subjects that they find especially fascinating or that they are particularly good at. If you are a really understanding leader, you will know how to make something like the uniform, yes, even the neckerchief, relevant - even EXCITING - for the boys in your Troop. 

 

No offense, bit if your premise was true --  that "a skilled and perceptive leader" get the boys "excited about anything" -- those efforts would be best applied to keeping Scouts who want to drop out of Scouting, rather than something as meaningless as a part of the uniform. I am assuming that since we all experience kids dropping out of Scouts, none of us -- even the necker-wearing ones of us -- are that skilled or perceptive.

 

Do you feel the same about Scot socks? Scout pants? Wearing patches properly? Adherence to the uniform guidelines?

[TAHAWK]

Bandannas are the new necker.

Bandannas have been (Cleveland Heights) Troop 22's neckerchief since 1977.  Only turns into a necker when they go north of the border every other year for the Dorchester International Camporee.

 

The uniform is secondary to the objectives, but uniform or drop out may be a false dichotomy.

Edited May 24, 2017 by TAHAWK

[Stosh]

Do you feel the same about Scot socks? Scout pants? Wearing patches properly? Adherence to the uniform guidelines?

 

@Col. Flagg

 

Okay, I just gotta ask: Do you really think @The Latin Scot's members have their own troop emblazoned, custom made, hand crafted Scout socks?

[Chadamus]

@Col. Flagg

 

Okay, I just gotta ask: Do you really think @The Latin Scot's members have their own troop emblazoned, custom made, hand crafted Scout socks?

Nah, just a typo. I'd bet my necker on it.

[Stosh]

Well, if he does, it's one for the books.  TAHAWK doesn't make typos very often and this one's great if it is.  If not, I bet his boys wear sandals to show them off.

[Col. Flagg]

@Col. Flagg

 

Okay, I just gotta ask: Do you really think @The Latin Scot's members have their own troop emblazoned, custom made, hand crafted Scout socks?

 

Missing the point. If the necker aficionados...

• Feel so strongly about one part of the uniform, then why not ALL parts of the uniform?

   

• Think that only "a skilled and perceptive leader" leaders can "get their boys excited about anything", why focus that energy on an object (necker) rather than really engaging their Scouts on a myriad of other more important issues?

I get you guys are necker-happy. Great. But let's not cast dispersions on those who aren't. The necker doesn't make the Scouter. Heck, the uniform and knots don't make the Scouter, so it really doesn't matter WHAT someone wears. The program and boys learning and growing is what matters.

 

That's the point.

[TAHAWK]

I made another typo?  I'm a Scot, but did I mention Scot socks?  

 

I own some Scot socks, along with Scots flashes.  

 

I'm cornfused [confusion with a higher carbohydrate content].  

[TAHAWK]

Missing the point. If the necker aficionados...

• Feel so strongly about one part of the uniform, then why not ALL parts of the uniform?

   

• Think that only "a skilled and perceptive leader" leaders can "get their boys excited about anything", why focus that energy on an object (necker) rather than really engaging their Scouts on a myriad of other more important issues?

I get you guys are necker-happy. Great. But let's not cast dispersions on those who aren't. The necker doesn't make the Scouter. Heck, the uniform and knots don't make the Scouter, so it really doesn't matter WHAT someone wears. The program and boys learning and growing is what matters.

 

That's the point.

The OP asked, "Has the time come for the BSA to consider a more formal reduction of the neckerchief in uniform wear?"  He then invited a discussion pro and con.

 

I cast no aspersions.  Indeed, I argue it's just a method.

 

OK.  I get it.  You don't like neckerchiefs.

 

And so?

 

The neckerchief has been an optional part of the uniform for decades.  What change is proposed?  It should not be an option?  The tent is not big enough for contrary opinions?

 

I vote leave it the heck alone and get on to some issue worthy of attention.

Edited May 24, 2017 by TAHAWK

[Stosh]

I'm really not a member of the uniform police force, but my boys like the accolades when someone points out how nice they look.  It's hard to miss the neckers.  As a matter of fact the only negative feedback we ever get is from parents who have to try and make them presentable after a week at camp.  The boys wear the uniform all the time at camp except at the waterfront.  But I have seen them out in the canoes with the uniform on.  Hard to miss the blaze orange.

 

I do agree that not all SM's are capable to inspiring the necker among the boys, but I tie it to the opening and closing flag ceremony where looking good makes one appreciate the dedication and respect for the flag and all those who struggled to maintain it's freedom.  We nicely and respectfully fold the flag, but it's just as important to button up and tuck in to nicely and respectfully present it at a flag ceremony.  Occasionally I remind the boys that the flag ceremony is the most important thing they are going to be doing at the meeting.

 

My boys are from a depressed part of town.  I do not expect socks, belts and pants, but what they do have, I encourage them to do their best with it.  The necker makes them stand out from the rest of the sea of tan shirts one most often sees.

[TAHAWK]

Clarke Green:

 

"Those of you who have attended international Scouting events know just about everyone wears a neckerchief with or without the uniform.  As a matter of fact at Kandersteg International Scout Center (KISC) the staff, Scouts and rovers wore their neckerchiefs all the time. Some wore two or three different neckerchiefs at the same time. There were lots of different slides (‘woggle’ being the more familiar international term) some folks wore several and many put pins on their neckerchiefs as well. Most neckerchiefs were worn with their ends knotted and, if they had a slide at all, they were not usually worn high on the collar but more open as the pictures below show.

. . .

 am not advocating some sweeping policy change or attempting to undermine long standing traditions.

But I do think that a neckerchief makes a great activity uniform and a reasonable, workable compromise Scouts would take to pretty readily. I like the idea of troop tee shirts, but Scouts outgrow them, they don’t outgrow neckerchiefs."

[Col. Flagg]

I was at Kandersteg twice since 2012. What they liked best about the US Scouts? Not the neckers...our uniforms. They loved the shirts and all the patches, especially the OA patches. Council strips were big traders too.