TAHAWK Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I am missing the argument, Col. They "push" BSA brand trousers or shorts as part of the "uniform." The neckerchief has been optional for decades. Why is this a big deal one way or the other? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I am missing the argument, Col. They "push" BSA brand trousers or shorts as part of the "uniform." The neckerchief has been optional for decades. Why is this a big deal one way or the other? Not sure I understand your question. My point was this: Necker is optional. On that we all agree. Some think it instantly identifies one as a Scout, some don't. Never seen neckers worn without field uniform except at Jambo or outside US. Huge decrease in units even wearing neckers in my region. BSA would never make 'neckers-only" a uniform option officially since they make so much revenue from other field uniform items. In other words, why sell a $7 necker when you can sell a mandatory (sort of) field shirt and pants for over $100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 "Has the time come for the BSA to consider a more formal reduction of the neckerchief in uniform wear?" How do you formally reduce from optional? Prohibit them? "Just wanted to hear some thoughts on this. If your unit wears neckerchiefs, why? And if not, also, why? " Thoughts expressed. Accepted. Rejected. Rants. Why is this thread going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Thoughts expressed. Accepted. Rejected. Rants. Why is this thread going on? Same reason ANY thread goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmberMike Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 "Has the time come for the BSA to consider a more formal reduction of the neckerchief in uniform wear?" How do you formally reduce from optional? Prohibit them? It doesn't have to go that far. I've been surprised to find that many units, and in particular many boys, don't know that it's optional or that they have a right to vote on it. Likewise I've also found that many units don't realize how broad their options are when it comes to neckers. One of my criticisms in my original post was that they are functionally useless in the standard BSA official shape and size. But really everyone is free to design and create neckers as they see fit, including larger ones, square shapes, etc. Not sure if it's just in my area, but the general sentiment seems to be that we use official BSA neckers or make custom ones according to the same exact standards. The idea that we can deviate from standard or not wear them at all is not common knowledge in some units. So instead of prohibiting them (which I would never suggest anyway), I think a sensible move from a National standpoint is to reiterate at both the adult and youth level what neckers are for and what the options are. If National does have an interest in reducing neckerchief usage (as I suspect from the almost nonexistent use of them by National leadership), this would be an opportunity to push that. If they want to maintain necker usage, or encourage it, this would also be a good opportunity to emphasize the various options available to units, and encourage everyone to get a little more creative with their choices. Obviously I don't like them. And I'd shed zero tears if they went away. But I also would have never even started this thread if I didn't think that there was some motivation at the higher levels to maybe get rid of them. And of course that's a purely speculative idea, but it's still just what I believe. When I look to National on any issue or topic, I look at their example. And in this case, their example is no necker. This isn't just about my opinion, it's about a trend I've noticed and I was curious what others thought. One other thing to consider, I originally suggested a reduction in necker wear for uniform use. I didn't say I wanted to to be banned and I didn't say anything about use out of uniform. Some folks have mentioned using them to identify their boys in areas where other groups are. Overseas this is a common practice and is often done with the necker alone, out of uniform. I have no problem with people using the necker however they want. I was posing the question more in terms of official use uniform wear, and whether or not the BSA is moving towards a reduced emphasis on this part of the uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAHAWK Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 "Special neckerchiefs, the same size as the official ones, may be authorized by local councils. Such neckerchiefs may include identification of the chartered organization. The standard designed neckerchief may be personalized with troop number, city, and state. By troop approval, an Eagle Scout may wear an Eagle Scout neckerchief." BSA, Guide to Awards and Insignia, "Special Regulations," "The Neckerchief." This has been the regulation forever and ignored systematically just as long. I don;t know of a single unit that got Council OK for a non-official neckerchief (nor does either council where I scout) or bothered about whether their special neckerchiefs were "the same size as the official ones." I have been in four troops since 1983 and they each had a special neckerchief without council consent that was not the same size as the official ones. The language should be eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numbersnerd Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 My my, so much touchiness here. Especially from some who get some pushback on their thoughts. And to what end? This thread typifies what turns so many off from Scouting once exposed to Scouters. To be honest, if I had to listen to some of this in person, my consideration of Scouting for my boys would drop. So I guess I should be thankful it's vented here instead of in a truly public forum. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 "Special neckerchiefs, the same size as the official ones, may be authorized by local councils. Such neckerchiefs may include identification of the chartered organization. The standard designed neckerchief may be personalized with troop number, city, and state. By troop approval, an Eagle Scout may wear an Eagle Scout neckerchief." BSA, Guide to Awards and Insignia, "Special Regulations," "The Neckerchief." This has been the regulation forever and ignored systematically just as long. I don;t know of a single unit that got Council OK for a non-official neckerchief (nor does either council where I scout) or bothered about whether their special neckerchiefs were "the same size as the official ones." I have been in four troops since 1983 and they each had a special neckerchief without council consent that was not the same size as the official ones. The language should be eliminated. I knew about that regulation when I was a scout, and -- although our troop had no interest in anything but one of the standard issues -- always wondered about it. Did council have a record book of custom designs? (I mean, they had a book of Eagle's names, and we could visit and sign it, so it stood to reason ...) Apparently not. About that other part of the rule. Say you have an Eagle who wants to wear his special neckerchief ... does any troop anywhere have an actual approval process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 "Special Neckerchief"? Eagle, Woodbadge, souvenir of Jamboree/Philmont/Camp Whosis... I have a "Smokey Bear" Forestry service necker in my collection. And an Amangemet Wipet (OA) award necker. And a Chaplain necker. And a District Leader Award necker. I have never heard anyone complain about any Scout necker as being inappropriate or "not allowed". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CherokeeScouter Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Hated them as a kid, don't care for them as an adult. But I'm not Wood Badge either. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CherokeeScouter Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Oh, and I forgot about the knee socks and garters with tassels we had to wear. What on earth was that about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Oh, and I forgot about the knee socks and garters with tassels we had to wear. What on earth was that about? Summer wear, the knee socks offered some protection from walking through the brush (burrs, ticks,...) while wearing shorts. Outdoor activities prior to LNT were often off trail - blaze a new trail, set up a new campsite, STALKING, tracking. Today, off-trail activities are generally limited to orienteering, geocaching,.. Garters held up the socks. Tassels (red) you got me, but think of what National would do today with the colors. Green, Gold, Silver, Blue,...or maybe they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Hated them as a kid, don't care for them as an adult. But I'm not Wood Badge either. Oh, and I forgot about the knee socks and garters with tassels we had to wear. What on earth was that about? Our troop voted to 86 the socks and garters thank the Lord!!! We went with green hiking socks instead. Loved our SM for that. I would have gotten beaten up on my to Scouts every Monday were I forced to wear those. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 On the other hand, my boys voted to have neckers and they wear them all the time. It's good to have the option for each troop/patrol to decide on their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WissX Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 This years camp staff will have them. I hope they turn out good. Our jamboree contingent is using a bolo as well as my home troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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