Where's the adventure that was promised?

[DuctTape]

Adults do not need to have the camping experience as a youth as a pre-requisite for helping boys plan and lead their own adventures. The adults need to be willing to learn and courageous enough to accept the next level of adventure. The adults can grow and learn as well. After 1 or 2 years any adult will have gained significant experience. If I was mentoring a new SM with zero outdoor, camping, or scouting experience I would give him a copy of my BSA Fieldbook. The first one. The "pow wows" are a linear progression of adventure using the patrol method. It is almost a "boy scouts for dummies" play by play.

[Stosh]

Our boys when they went to the BWCA had a Scouter come in and teach them how to plan a BWCA trip.  He knew how to pack, what to pack, all the rules/regulations, and what to expect.  He taught the boys ARC First Aid and CPR and reviewed canoeing techniques.  His boys had never gone on any high adventure trip.  So, we combined his skill and our experience with high adventures and took both troops up there.  When all was said and done his boys now knew what high adventure was and could be and our boys knew the ins and outs of BWCA treks.  Win for everyone.  I found out that doing a 3 mile portage with a 85# canoe is not fun, but the boys on my crew found out that - yes the packs are a lot lighter, but together they were heavier.  They chose to double portage it.    My 85# canoe wasn't so bad as I thought it would be, but it still was a struggle.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Stosh

[Col. Flagg]

Adults do not need to have the camping experience as a youth as a pre-requisite for helping boys plan and lead their own adventures. The adults need to be willing to learn and courageous enough to accept the next level of adventure. The adults can grow and learn as well. After 1 or 2 years any adult will have gained significant experience. If I was mentoring a new SM with zero outdoor, camping, or scouting experience I would give him a copy of my BSA Fieldbook. The first one. The "pow wows" are a linear progression of adventure using the patrol method. It is almost a "boy scouts for dummies" play by play.

 

Well, they need proper training for the adventures they are supporting.

[Eagledad]

Adults do not need to have the camping experience as a youth as a pre-requisite for helping boys plan and lead their own adventures. The adults need to be willing to learn and courageous enough to accept the next level of adventure. The adults can grow and learn as well. After 1 or 2 years any adult will have gained significant experience. If I was mentoring a new SM with zero outdoor, camping, or scouting experience I would give him a copy of my BSA Fieldbook. The first one. The "pow wows" are a linear progression of adventure using the patrol method. It is almost a "boy scouts for dummies" play by play.

I fully agree in theory. In reality unexperienced adults need three years of additional guidance to guide a mature boy run patrol method adventure program. That opinion is based from my experience of helping and training adults in both packs and troops. If you think that is a bit harsh, I also believe adults with an extensive youth troop experience needs AT LEAST 3 years OJT to be a productive Scoutmaster for a mature program. 

 

Sadly, what programs like Philmont and Boundary Waters have done is given adults the idea that real adventure starts at 14. I would venture to guess that 90% of scouts today have never done a weekend backpacking trip with their patrol or troop because the adults are waiting for them to reach the right age. And while age is the excuse, it really has more to do with the inconvenience of the level of effort required. But hey, I'm excited to see a troop spend a weekend just fishing. 

 

Barry

[Tampa Turtle]

I am finding the low level of backpacking and non-car camping experience among the younger Dad's putting a considerable damper on the boy's planned adventures. Add a rising minority of younger guys who clearly are in a race to eagle with the minimum level of camping and it has been a struggle for the PLC's plans to get carried out when the required Adults's cut a trip short because they want to get home early or avoid a second night on the cott(!!!). It is a sad and sorry day when the crippled, limping Turtle who never camped a day before his kids did scouts (but was willing to learn) is the manly man. I find myself doing more tarp or cowboy camping just to set a good example.

 

We still have a core of older adventuresome lads so there is still hope...

[Stosh]

I bet there is the necessary expertise in every BSA Council across the country to tap into if one needs direction and instruction.  Hey Mr. Stosh, our troop is looking to go to BWCA and would like some pointers on what we need to do to be ready.

 

I already have an offer for next summer to take a expedition to Isle Royal for a different troop than mine.

 

The Mrs. and I are always open to taking a group to BWCA.

 

Nobody asks, so we just go anyway.

[Col. Flagg]

I am finding the low level of backpacking and non-car camping experience among the younger Dad's putting a considerable damper on the boy's planned adventures. Add a rising minority of younger guys who clearly are in a race to eagle with the minimum level of camping and it has been a struggle for the PLC's plans to get carried out when the required Adults's cut a trip short because they want to get home early or avoid a second night on the cott(!!!). It is a sad and sorry day when the crippled, limping Turtle who never camped a day before his kids did scouts (but was willing to learn) is the manly man. I find myself doing more tarp or cowboy camping just to set a good example.

 

We still have a core of older adventuresome lads so there is still hope...

 

Ah, Millennial Dads...

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[mgood777]

Out Philmont ranger would not let anyone camp outside the established Bearmuda Triangle.

When I was a Ranger, the "bearmuda triangle" was fromm the fire pit to the sump to the bear bags and back to the fire pit. Camping INSIDE that triangle was strongly discouraged.

[Col. Flagg]

When I was a Ranger, the "bearmuda triangle" was fromm the fire pit to the sump to the bear bags and back to the fire pit. Camping INSIDE that triangle was strongly discouraged.

 

I suspect it was prohibited. 

 

I am sure he was talking about the philmont graphic which also shows the tents in the pic, but not actually inside the triangle.

 

[RememberSchiff]

Has anyone heard of more provisional weeks at HA camps? As I understand, Philmont has provisional weeks for NAYLE?, STEM , and trailwork but not treks.

[DuctTape]

I fully agree in theory. In reality unexperienced adults need three years of additional guidance to guide a mature boy run patrol method adventure program. That opinion is based from my experience of helping and training adults in both packs and troops. If you think that is a bit harsh, I also believe adults with an extensive youth troop experience needs AT LEAST 3 years OJT to be a productive Scoutmaster for a mature program. 

 

Sadly, what programs like Philmont and Boundary Waters have done is given adults the idea that real adventure starts at 14. I would venture to guess that 90% of scouts today have never done a weekend backpacking trip with their patrol or troop because the adults are waiting for them to reach the right age. And while age is the excuse, it really has more to do with the inconvenience of the level of effort required. But hey, I'm excited to see a troop spend a weekend just fishing. 

 

Barry

I completely agree. The adventure starts small for scouts and scouters. As both grow and learn, the adventures increase.

[Fehler]

And the best way to encourage adults to lead campouts is to ridicule the gear they use when camping with their family. 

[John-in-KC]

Has anyone heard of more provisional weeks at HA camps? As I understand, Philmont has provisional weeks for NAYLE?, STEM , and trailwork but not treks.

 

They are not provisional.  They are actual programs.

 

OA Trail Crew is designed to work with young men who may be seeking careers in conservation service.  They're gonna bust their butts for a week, doing things in the back-country for the Ranch.  In return, they have the freedom of the Reservation to design their week two trek.  If they want, they can go from Phillips to Baldy to the Tooth.  It's not for young boys, you have to be at least 16, so we're talking 10th graders and up.

http://adventure.oa-bsa.org/oatc.php

 

NAYLE is youth leadership education.  I think I preferred the old method, where the emphasis was train the trainer:  The Scouts who came were going to teach youth leadership training in their own council; they learned from a team of Scouts who came from councils to teach them.

http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/nayle.aspx

 

And yes, the Mountain Trek program continues.  Go to PTC, your young man or woman, of Trek age, goes out for a week.

http://www.philmontscoutranch.org/~/~/link.aspx?_id=A4DD3FE098E540C4B0A09570FD63BB11&_z=z

 

As far as STEM camps go, I know of no national program.  Maybe others do.

[Col. Flagg]

And the best way to encourage adults to lead campouts is to ridicule the gear they use when camping with their family. 

 

When you're 35 and you use a queen size air mattress for comfort or cot (with no medical condition), while the kids are sleeping on the ground or a foam pad? Yeah.

 

If you lead, you lead by example. Simple as that.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[EmberMike]

I am not turning this discussion into if girls should be admitted discussion. I'm only saying that National inadvertently drives out adventure with many of their program changes. As we get generation on generation of inexperienced adults taking over units, the expectation of adventure in the unit is being driven lower.  I retired as a scoutmaster about 15 years ago now. The program has changed enough that I would have to change some of how we did things then. And not for the better. Some of our best adventure experiences are in our troop program. But a lot of that started from experiences the adults had as a youth.

 

 

You could have made your point quite well by just leaving it at this, that inexperienced adults are a cause of the loss of adventure in scouting. And then I would have agreed with you. But then you had to ruin your whole point and blame women and girls specifically. Women who don't even exist in some units, and girls who aren't in the Boy Scouts main program at all. 

 

It's an inexperienced adult issue, period. Many units have no women involved and they still have problems keeping up the adventure. An inexperienced male leader can be far more detrimental to the adventurous spirit of a unit than an experienced female leader.