Running a Frontier Girls program concurrent with a Cub Scout Pack

[gumbymaster]

It sounds like an interesting challenge.

 

My first thought is that all of your leadership will need to be trained by both programs (CS & FG).  This may put an extra burden on the den and pack leaders they do not want or need.  The Alternative is to have a CS leader and a separate FG leader, and they could share the role of running activities, run separate activities for many things, or one could defer to the other's leadership, and be a leader in a CYA sense only.

 

In practice, Cub Scouts are already billed as a program for the whole family, so the only real change is that you have a formal structure, and that there is an awards/advancement option not available to "participating" siblings in the Cub Scouts.

 

I cannot find the thread at the moment, but there is another member on this board who runs a concurrent program for boys and girls from cubs through high school, using a mix of BSA, GSUSA and other programs to do so.  He would probably be a good person to reach out to, I'm sorry I do not recall the name at the moment - They had a fantastic group picture of all the units.

 

One program that I belonged to in my youth, was an Explorer post (pre Venturing) that also offered programs for pre-13 year olds and/or non-scouts, and for them, they were registered as Campfire youth, and then went on to participate like anyone else.  The program did not have an advancement component, so it may have been a little easier.  But I do not know the specifics of how to have the adult leadership properly qualified in such circumstances.  But they were able to run their program, and even rented BSA camps for a week to run it, so it must have passed someones scrutiny at the time.

 

Good luck.  Take lots of of notes on what does or does not work and the challenges you run into and how they are overcome.  And please share that with us.  It will be valuable for the rest of us someday.

[NJCubScouter]

I think it can be made to work, but I think there are a lot of questions that need to be answered.  I would make up a list of questions, based on the issues raised in this thread, and then go meet with your DE or other appropriate professional at council and get answers before I would commit to do anything like this.  The first item on my list of questions would be insurance, in other words, who (if anyone) is providing insurance for the girls and their activities that corresponds to the insurance that the BSA provides for the boys?  If the answer is "you are", you may want to rethink your plans.  YP rules, YP training and other training are also essential questions.  And I would read these FAQs very carefully: http://frontiergirlsclubs.com/faqs/ Frontier Girls (which I never heard of before this thread) is not actually an organization with members like the BSA.  "Frontier Girls LLC simply sells a curriculum product." So if there's an issue or problem, who you gonna call?  Is your DE going to help you with issues regarding the Frontier Girls?  Because it does not appear that there is a Frontier Girls DE, or anything like it.

[Stosh]

WOW  Thanks @@NJCubScouter  No background checks, no YPT, and make sure you have $1,000,000+ in homeowner's liability insurance and own a home!

 

Sign me up! I have "Stupid" written with a Sharpie on my forehead!  

Edited February 16, 2017 by Stosh

[Cubmaster Pete]

Stosh,

 

I respect your opinion, and generally agree with most of what you say on this forum.

 

But saying I'm stupid, really?

 

A scout is courteous..... moving on....

[Stosh]

Stupid is a perfectly acceptable word in the dictionary, None I could find indicate it is a derogatory term.

 

stu·pid

ˈst(y)o͞opəd/

adjective

adjective: stupid; comparative adjective: stupider; superlative adjective: stupidest

1. 1.

   having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

   "I was stupid enough to think she was perfect"

   synonyms: unintelligent, ignorant, dense, foolish, dull-witted, slow, simpleminded, vacuous, vapid, idiotic, imbecilic, imbecile, obtuse, doltish; More

   informalthick, dim, dimwitted, slow-witted, dumb, dopey, dozy, moronic, cretinous, pea-brained, halfwitted, soft in the head, brain-dead, boneheaded, thickheaded, wooden-headed, muttonheaded, daft

   "they're rather stupid"

   foolish, silly, unintelligent, idiotic, scatterbrained, nonsensical, senseless, harebrained, unthinking, ill-advised, ill-considered, unwise, injudicious;

   inane, absurd, ludicrous, ridiculous, laughable, risible, fatuous, asinine, mad, insane, lunatic;

   informalcrazy, dopey, cracked, half-baked, dimwitted, cockeyed, lamebrained, nutty, batty, cuckoo, loony, loopy

   "that was a really stupid thing to do"

   antonyms: intelligent, sensible

   • dazed and unable to think clearly.

     "apprehension was numbing her brain and making her stupid"

     synonyms: into a stupor, into a daze, into oblivion; More

     stupefied, dazed, unconscious

     "he drank himself stupid"

     antonyms: alert
   • informal

     used to express exasperation or boredom.

     "she told him to stop messing with his stupid painting"

noun

informal

noun: stupid; plural noun: stupids

1. 1.

   a stupid person (often used as a term of address).

   "you're not a coward, stupid!"

 

It this case it does show a certain lack of intelligence (i.e. military intelligence, information) or lack of knowledge and a questionable amount of common sense before taking on the objective.

 

Be prepared?  I don't think this whole idea has been carefully thought out, not enough intelligence gathering and to proceed thus would indicate a questionable lack of common sense. 

 

I apologize if the word might have offended someone, but it is a perfectly good word which puts into one word how I perceive this endeavor. 

 

One of the lessons I learned in life as a wordsmith is I cannot be held accountable for everyone's perceived definition of words.  I just do the best I can.  If one were to go back and look carefully at the comment I do not use the word as a noun, just as an adjective.  If anyone might have derived any one as stupid, it would have been me, having been stupid enough to write that word with a permanent ink Sharpy on my forehead.  That means at best everyone else is off the hook.

 

As @@Col. Flagg mentioned in another post, be careful with words, they have a lot of perfectly good meanings many of us are not aware of.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Stosh

[David CO]

I guess I am "stupid" too.  We chartered a Boy Scout Troop way back before BSA provided insurance coverage. 

[Stosh]

Churches' ministry often times do it without regards to whether or not they have insurance.    As well as it should be.  I've done a lot of stupid things over the course of the past 66 years.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Stosh

[Bugeyes]

My CO has a pack, troop and crew that are operating with an American Heritage Girls troop as a sister unit. Finances for all units are separate, but operate under the same CO at the same time. There is a lot of crossover for both programs. We hold meetings separately, but join together for events and service projects. My girls are also part of coed BSA programs, one being a pilot program based on Venturing but for middle school ages (which I am associate advisor for). We have a lot of interest in my district for trying something similar for Cub ages. My pack also started up the first Lions den in my council because we need something for kinder boys. We were just going to offer our our own church program alongside the Cubs- and eventually garnered council support.

As far as YPT concerns in a coed group, the BSA has already tackled that. Match regulations for Venturing- a leader of each gender for every time 2 deep leadership is required, and buddy groups of three in a mixed gender group or of 2 in a same gender group.

As for insurance- let's don't be silly. FG is likely to have their own type of coverage. If not, then the CO is (like in a church- where offering different ministries to boys and girls at the same time is nothing new.)

My advice as a program planner across different platforms: find where the programs have parallels. Where policies don't match up, go with the most stringent policy.

Congratulations for thinking outside of the box and trying something new. Don't be daunted by the naysayers!

[Stosh]

First of all welcome to the forum, glad you're with us.

 

http://frontiergirlsclubs.com/faqs/

 

This is a link directly to the Frontier Girl's website with Frequently asked Questions and Answers.

 

#5 indicates there is no liability insurance provided and leaders are encouraged to rely on their homeowner's insurance or find chartering organizations that have insurance policies in place.  I would check that out carefully.  There is no provision for youth accident insurance and again if they are hurt during an event, and the girl has no insurance, that's unfortunate.  The organization itself doesn't back up it's leadership, problems are to be dealt with as an individual leader or if the chartering organization has insurance, what they back up is up to their policy.

 

#14 indicates no background checks or YPT provided.  This whole process is pushed to the troop owners and if it happens to be a handful of parents, it's up to them to make the checks and provide the training.  If the troop owners don't do it, then any problems in this area are the responsibility of the individual and their insurance.

 

This organization basically sells a program curriculum that people who pay for it and membership have access to.

[David CO]

Pete said that the FS girls would have a different CO.

 

The Cub Scout unit's CO might have insurance to cover the girls at meetings, as visitors, but I doubt that it would apply to any outings conducted off the CO's property.

Edited February 19, 2017 by David CO

[qwazse]

So, there were these young-adult scouts who were sent out to determine the suitability of a permanent site for an up-and-coming program. (Let's call it the dirty dozen patrol.) They took their good old time, looked into available land, water quality, food service, and were generally discrete about the whole process. Basically the usual planning and preparation, and a true First-Class adventure.

 

When the dirty dozen returned to their unit, they gave a a thorough report. The land was awesome! Plenty of sites to choose from. Good water. Great food ripe for picking. (They even had samples to prove it.) Everything was up to spec. However, the majority report was pessimistic. Staking claim would require constant wrangling with existing owners, and they had some big guns on their side. Two scouts in the minority report said, basically, "Come on guys, we can take them! The time is right. You know we can do this! It's exactly what you've been wanting!" Well the unit as a whole was in no mood for a fight, in spite of their current digs not being anything near National Camp School standards, so they went with the majority report.

 

Nobody remembers the names of the ten scouts who succeeded in swaying their unit to keep the status quo. But the scouts with the minority report, Joshua and Caleb, grudgingly went along in their crappy camp selection .... They did however commit their time to teaching first-years how to take on Giants. So, that in due time they had a unit full of patrols who were ripe to occupy new territory and out maneuver the bigguns. (As a side note, one of the patrols formed a band with a crazy good horn section ... "The Shofars" I think they were called ... their gigs had a reputation for bringing down the house.)

 

So CP, you may indeed be stupid. But, you could still be right. Let us know what you desire to do about it.

Edited February 19, 2017 by qwazse

[Cubmaster Pete]

Pete said that the FS girls would have a different CO.

 

The Cub Scout unit's CO might have insurance to cover the girls at meetings, as visitors, but I doubt that it would apply to any outings conducted off the CO's property.

 

At the moment, pack meetings are NOT at our CO facility, it's not big enough or conducive for what we need to do. We utilize a local church hall for our pack meetings, they have welcomed us with open arms and have been very supportive.

 

That being said, the CO for our FG troop would be the church that the pack already meets at.......

 

I enjoy the CO for the pack (and troop) as they have been VERY financially supportive of both units.

[bearess]

You briefly mentioned not wanting to go the Girl Scout route. Why is that?

[Eagle94-A1]

@@Bugeyes,

 

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

2) You said, "My girls are also part of coed BSA programs, one being a pilot program based on Venturing but for middle school ages (which I am associate advisor for). We have a lot of interest in my district for trying something similar for Cub ages."

 

Could you giove some specifics on the pilot?  As you can guess, there is a lot of interest in it.

[Cubmaster Pete]

You briefly mentioned not wanting to go the Girl Scout route. Why is that?

 

It appeared that the FG program was going to be more flexible, and avoid the whole cookie mess which we are not into getting involved in.