How to get rid of the SM

[MrsSmith]

I am not a member of the CO and the troop commissioner is MIA (terminally ill). I am a single mom and have been told (too subtly to challenge it) that the men run this troop and basically, women are to be seen and not you-know-what. So that rules out offering to assist. (I was "challenged" to go get trained, which I am going to do so that I can speak more intelligently). And my 13 year old is too close with the other boys to change now. I know that some other parents are frustrated. But since we don't seem to have a "committee", there seems to be no way to challenge the status quo.

[Shell in WA- USA]

You know, Mrs Smith, generally I'm not one to "jump ship." I usually will try to get things working and make the best of it. But judging form your last post, it might be better for you to find a better troop for your son. For if the adult "committee" is not working right, I can only imagine what the boy "committee" is doing.

 

Being a single Mom I also have faced that "good ol boy" attitude. I know how you feel. I faced that in this troop my boys are in. But I liked the troop on the boy side too well to change troops for my involvement. But after four years of always "being there" to help,and not being the "Mom" they assumed I'd be, but a trained boy scout leader, the men of the troop are finally more comfortable with me around. I truely want my boys to grow, I've never been one to coddle my boys. AND now they are even letting new women leaders into the fold.

 

So just be patient, they will come around when they understand that you are just being a leader and not the "mom" they are expecting.

 

[MrsSmith]

I really do NOT want to be just a nitpicker (aka whiner) Its good to have this forum so that venting can be done anonymously and without bridge burning. I will consider everyone's words of wisdom this weekend. Thanks especially Shell in WA, USA

[Shell in WA- USA]

Hey, Mrs, Smith, one thing good about being in Scouting is that if you burn your bridges....you'll know how to build new ones!

 

Just kidding, of course you'll want to mend bridges before burning them. And if you are asking legitimate questions, anyone should understand that. I would much rather have a leader who wants to understand the program than one who wants to "do it their way" or just start trouble.

 

And this is one place to ask. But you can also ask your Unit Commissioner(UC) or District Executive(DE) or even your district trainer for help if you're not finding it within your son's troop. Their "jobs" rest on the success of your troop too.

 

YIS, Shell

[Bob White]

Hi Mrs. Smith,

 

Training could be a got tool for you in this situations, as it will help you to understand the structure of the organization and that is the key to your question.

 

You have three paths to choose from.

 

1) Go have a non-confrontational meeting with the Scoutmaster. Ask him to help you to understand his methods and ask specifically about the actions that concern you. Then ask someone knowledgable in scouting methods if the scoutmasters actions are correct. You can communicate privately with most members of this forum without revealing your name or you e-mail adress by clicking on the Send Private Message link in the left column next to an individuals post.

 

2) Read the Youth Protection policies found in the Guide to Safe Scouting here http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/

 

If you feel these policies are being violated you should contact your council's Scout Executive immediately with your concerns.

 

3) The troop is owned by the Charter Organization. take your concerns directly to the head of that organization, Thay have the authority to remove any adult at any time for whatever reason they choose.

 

 

If you need more specific information just click on the link to the left of this post and send me an e-mail.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[frank10]

Mrs. S.,

Please tell me you don't know me...

John B.

(Grin)

[LovetoCamp]

Mrs. Smith,

 

You mentioned that you've been observing for a month, that you haven't been trained, and yet something is wrong enough that you want to relieve the Scoutmaster, but you won't say why.

 

I don't think you shoud to be going in front of the committee requesting the Scoutmaster be fired too quickly. I don't think you should talk to the Chartered Org Head or the Chartered Org Rep until you've taken all the training. Sign on as ASM and attend religiously.

 

Everytime someone has any grievance there's 27 good intentioned people from this forum advising them to make demands of the CO. If I had a parent that sat quietly by for a month and then went to the Legion Commander looking to get me canned because she didn't like my program, I'd probably not care for that too much. If, on the other hand, an active fellow volunteer, who has traveled down to the twin cities for training, sold popcorn, went to roundtables, helped with camporees, slept in the snow, went backpacking, was there on Scout Sunday, helped with JLT, had some advice on running program, I'm all ears and would love the help. Work your way in, don't throw gas on the fire.

[MrsSmith]

Wingnut: its not you, so take a breath.

Trail Pounder: In fairness to those who responded, my question was "how to get rid of the SM" and that is the information I received. (including one suggestion that I contact a guy named "Whitey" but I am not seriously considering that being somewhat cash strapped at this time).

 

I do attend all of the meetings although help is not requested in the other areas you mentioned and I am going to sign up for training. I am not going to confront anybody yet, I just wanted to get an idea of the proper procedure. I don't want to start something that may end up with my boy being forced to leave a troop of his friends, because I embarrassed him to death. After all, its all about our kids, right? So, for now, the poor guy is safe from my scheming; you can stop worrying for him.

But once I get trained.........

[dsteele]

There is insufficient information for me to give any advice of any value whatsoever regarding the Scoutmaster mentioned in this thread.

 

However, I can tell you, Mrs. Smith, that a chat with your District Executive will cost you nothing and may enlighten him/her on many fronts regarding your son's troop.

 

Have the chat.

 

DS

[LovetoCamp]

it wasn't him I was worrying about...

[MrsSmith]

Ok Trail Pounder, I'll bite. Who were you worried about and why?

[Fat Old Guy]

" I have read some(BobWhite v FOG)that are pretty intimidating"

 

Hey! Hey! Hey! I don't think that I've ever jumped on a newcomer for asking a question or stating an opinion unlike our Bobo Blanco whose attitude is "The book must be followed without question. No one is worthy of having an opinion except those who have been blessed by BSA to recite the official opinions."

 

As for why I crack on BW, we all know that it is because he's a pedantic, pompous, arrogant book thumper among other things.

 

Now for your problem. There are two course of action and which you take depends on how much psychic and emotional energy you want to invest.

 

Try to fix the problems. Talk to other parents to find others that feel as you do. Talk to your assorted Commissioners: Unit and District. Talk to the DE (if he'll answer the phone). Work with the unit to get things changed around.

 

That can be a huge investment of time, energy and emotion. Talk to your son and see if he'd like to look at other troops. Ask him which of his friends he'd like to go with him. See if those guys (and their parents are willing to leave).

 

As noble as staying and trying to fix a problem unit is, it can take years to effect the cultural change necessary to let the Boys do their jobs and convince the adults that they aren't supposed to be doing much of anything. From what I've heard, it usually takes about three years to change a troop around but that's half of a boy's Scouting life.

 

That troop that I'm involved with was a bunch of overgrown Webelos dens until we started changing things two years ago. After two years, we have an SPL who wants to be SPL and wants to lead. We are still working on getting the Patrol Leaders to be PL because they want the job instead of just taking it to advance. We're still trying to get some of the adults to understand "let the Scouts do it."

 

When my son crossed over, if the troop wasn't getting a new SM who wanted to change things, we'd have looked elsewhere. As it is, I stuck to help, partially motivated by laziness because the next closest troop is a half hour's drive away.

[evmori]

There has been nothing posted that would indicate there is a problem with the SM other than a "feeling". While that "feeling" maybe correct, any opinion given would be out of line.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Shell in WA- USA]

Boy, FOG, you're story sounds so familiar to mine! When my first son crossed over, it looked like a great troop. Both my son and I were inpressed with the boys of the troop and thought we'd "get alot" out of belonging to it. But as time went time, I soon realized that the SM wasn't so pleasant to deal with. He "rewrote" BSA policies to fit what he wanted to do. For example, no MB earned until you are star scout. Coupled with other things, it squanched my son's idea of becoming a Eagle Scout. To which I didn't really realize until my second son came into the troop (My second son is more of the leader quality, he questions things and knew what he was being told was wrong because I've got my kids as involved with the district and council people almost as much as myself. Hey, I bring a work force of three when I sign on! ). It was then I realized that the problems weren't in my first son's motivation (like I thought) but because of these SM's new rules to the program.

 

(Which I was able to get straightened fairly fast because what he didn't realize is how heavily involved I was at the District and Council level, and that I also had been to training and knew the program. The other troop committee members had not been trained and had no idea they were agreeing to things against BSA policies. I took it straight to the DE that I already knew well. He, the field director, and the UC at the time had a lengthy talk to the SM. Then they came to the Troop Committee meeting and let everyone know the "proper way" to run the program and insisted on training for the members. It was also about that time the SM announced his retirement, not sure if it's related but it looks like it.)

 

I also would have moved my sons from the troop except the SM talked about retiring "soon." So we hung in there, a year later, when my third son joined, we had a new SM and now things are changing around. It's no longer run as "SM way or the highway" but rather it's a committee decision for the adult end of things.

 

Meanwhile, as a group of boys, they are a great troop and in the last year or so, things are changing around and the boys are "in charge" again and the adults are filling their roles as needed. So the troop is healthy again. But you're right, FOG, it took about three years to get there.

 

And in my case, even with athe problems I mention, it was mostly on the adult side of things. The boys were still getting mostly what they needed and learning that leadership. Except now it's even better!

[LauraT7]

I'm a single mom of a 13 yr old scout, too - welcome to the board! I have to say that being a part of Boy Scouting with my son and his friends has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

 

I've been active in girl scouting all my life, and was active with my son's cub scout pack when he started in as a tiger cub. I, too, joined the troop committee when he joined the troop, and for awhile, i sat back, listened, learned, attended roundtables and got training. As I became more and more aware that our troop, while a great 'boys club' was not the ideal of scout structure, I became more involved in effecting change. In a volunteer organization, especially one in trouble - you can't just "fire" the bad guy and hire a new one. You'll find that good volunteers are tough to come by!

 

There are lots of "troops" that go by the name of Boy Scouts - but that are really camping clubs, eagle mills or badge groups. Run by adults very efficiently and they often attract large groups of boys - often 50+ in membership - they do lots of cool things, and often have a set program they repeat, year after year. They also often have a very beloved SM or small group of adults that run their 'program' with military precision. But boys come out of those troops not knowing how to plan their OWN trips, or think for themselves. To my way of thinking - that's not 'scouting' - that's just a club for boys.

 

Often, as you seem to be finding out - the problem is not ONE person - it's that there were not enough TRAINED and EDUCATED volunteers on the committee and as SM and ASM's to follow the BSA program. No ONE person in a troop should have all the 'power'. As one of my trainers once said, "Boy Scouts would be perfect - if it weren't for the adults!"

 

What often happens is that it IS tougher to teach the boys to run the troop themselves - they make mistakes, and the adults sometimes think it's easier to just do everything themselves. In the end - it isn't. In the end - the BOYS learn much more and get much more out of their successes if they made mistakes along the way.

 

I would suggest that you start just as you are - ask questions, get copies of the SM manual, and boy training literature, go to roundtable, talk to other troop leaders in your area about how their troops do things. There's great information to be found in training - but Training isn't 'just' going to class - though the certificate holds some clout with 'some' of the 'old guard'. I've learned much, much more 'training' from scout boards like this one, reading everything I can get my hands on, and mostly - talking to other scouters at every event I can get to. There's also alot of mis-information out there - so you have to sift it all and figure out what is true, effective and workable for your troop.

 

"Fixing" a troop that has let itself get sidetracked from the program is not something that can be done by changing one person, or a few. However, it is very worthwhile to see boys come into their own in a REAL, boy-run troop.

 

We're still working on this in our troop - we have a number of hold-outs on the committee that still think THEY should be 'voting' on everything and making descisions on where the boys go and what they do. Our troop is not yet, totally, boy-run. But it has come a LONG, long way in 2-3 years! We have gained, and we have lost - some families chose to move to to the "boys clubs" or 'super structured' troops in the area. but the boys/ families that chose to stay with us have grown tremendously! And our commitment to the BOYS has been noticed, and has boosted our recruitment with MORE families who want to support the 'boy lead' traditions of scouting - both from other troops, and from webelos crossovers.