Religious groups and individual beliefs

[Pale Horse]

That is nonsense.

 

It is like saying that criminals do us all a public service by strengthening our support for law and order.

 

 

Ha ha, good point.  Nothing says supporting law enforcement officers like going out and committing a few B&Es.

[Stosh]

Yep, nothing worse than creating a war so our peacetime soldiers have something to do.

[MattR]

I've never quite understood how questioning the existance of God is not consistent with doing one's Duty to God. Does it not follow that when someone questions the authority or existance of God, that it often (if not usually) serves to strengthen others belief in God and if that's the case, then hasn't the non-theist actually done God a service?

I suspect different beliefs handle this differently. I have no problem with the concept of struggling with God; for all sorts of reasons. Others see it differently.

[Ranman328]

What do you do about someone that is Agnostic?  We had an Assistant Cubmaster that was openly vocal about being Agnostic.

[David CO]

What do you do about someone that is Agnostic?  We had an Assistant Cubmaster that was openly vocal about being Agnostic.

 

I would let him go.  Then again, my CO wouldn't have accepted him in the first place.

Edited February 13, 2017 by David CO

[DuctTape]

What do you do about someone that is Agnostic? We had an Assistant Cubmaster that was openly vocal about being Agnostic.

I have no religious test for scouts or scouters. Their acknowledgement of the DRP is all that is required by the BSA. their beliefs, and actions consistent with them are between them, and their religious leader (and/or parents).

Edited February 13, 2017 by DuctTape

[qwazse]

Agnostic = without thought.

Sounds a lot like what my Bhuddist buddies are trying to say when they talk about non-theistic religion.

Some agnosticism says that God is unknowable and therefore one should not commit to any religion.

Others insist that any religious practice is foolishness, God is so far removed from he here and now that any religious practice is folly.

Again, this boils down to how willing a scout(er) is to concede to what's laid out in the declaration of religious principle.

[Stosh]

Agnostic = without thought.

 

 

Slight correction here.  Agnostic - A = not or without gnostic = knowledge.  Without knowledge.  You were correct when you indicated "Some agnosticism says that God is unknowable"  This is a process of knowing or knowledge, not belief.  Belief is the acceptance of an idea that IS unknowable.  Apples and oranges operating here.  Unless one knows they aren't going to accept anything, meaning if it can be sensed with any of the 5 senses it is not real.

 

An A-theists = A = not or without theism = God/god.  Without G/god.  They actually do believe, but their belief is there is no G/god.  They have a belief system the opposite of the Theist.

 

Now there may be a few that will argue those definitions, but those are the etymology of the two words.

 

I'm sure the Agnostic has put a bit of thought into the process, but has concluded there is no way of knowing.  They just leave it at that.

[ghjim]

Slight correction here.  Agnostic - A = not or without gnostic = knowledge.  Without knowledge.  You were correct when you indicated "Some agnosticism says that God is unknowable"  This is a process of knowing or knowledge, not belief.  Belief is the acceptance of an idea that IS unknowable.  Apples and oranges operating here.  Unless one knows they aren't going to accept anything, meaning if it can be sensed with any of the 5 senses it is not real.

 

An A-theists = A = not or without theism = God/god.  Without G/god.  They actually do believe, but their belief is there is no G/god.  They have a belief system the opposite of the Theist.

 

Now there may be a few that will argue those definitions, but those are the etymology of the two words.

 

I'm sure the Agnostic has put a bit of thought into the process, but has concluded there is no way of knowing.  They just leave it at that.

 

I consider myself agnostic, and to me it means irreligious.  This is why I asked the question.  I do enjoy scientific inquiry into the supernatural.

[Stosh]

I consider myself agnostic, and to me it means irreligious.  This is why I asked the question.  I do enjoy scientific inquiry into the supernatural.

 

There is no such thing as scientific inquiry into the supernatural.  There is only the scientific known and the scientific unknown.  Religion is the acceptance of of the unknown.  It's similar to the scientific theories we have today.  That which we cannot prove is accepted as logical speculation.  The Theory of Evolution cannot be proven, but people today believe it is true because of logical (knowledge based) assumptions.Space warp travel through worm holes has not been proven but there are those that believe it's possible.  The list of what scientists believe and what can be proven indicate the human tendency towards faith.  They want it to be true, they believe it to be true, but it cannot be proven.  Thus the foundation for religion.

[David CO]

I consider myself agnostic, and to me it means irreligious.  This is why I asked the question.  I do enjoy scientific inquiry into the supernatural.

 

I think what you are asking is whether or not it is possible for you to game the system.  Yes, people do it all the time.  

 

There really is no need for an agnostic to join the Unitarians in order to get into BSA.  You can pick any religion.  Once you have decided to deceive, there really is no need to limit yourself to any particular church. Pick any one you want.  Nobody is going to ask to see a membership card.

 

Scouting is an activity based on trust and honor.  We generally take people at their word.

Edited February 13, 2017 by David CO

[David CO]

Jim,

 

It is possible to deceive without actually telling a lie.  I'll give you an example.

 

I was a Lone Scout.  I never participated in a Boy Scout troop as a boy.  I was never in a patrol.  

 

When I first applied to be a scout leader, I neglected to tell the CO that my experience as a Boy Scout was in the Lone Scouting program.  They naturally assumed that I had been in a troop.  

 

I did nothing to correct their incorrect assumption.  I didn't lie, but I now feel that I had deceived them.  I didn't feel that way at the time, but I do now.

 

I am not proud of what I did.  I don't know if they would have offered me the Scoutmaster position had they known that I had zero experience in a Boy Scout unit.  Maybe, or maybe not.  I don't know.  What I do know is that I regret having done it that way.  

 

My advice to any young man applying to be a scout leader is to be completely honest.  Don't game the system. Do it the right way.  

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Slight correction here.  Agnostic - A = not or without gnostic = knowledge.  Without knowledge.  You were correct when you indicated "Some agnosticism says that God is unknowable"  This is a process of knowing or knowledge, not belief.  Belief is the acceptance of an idea that IS unknowable.  Apples and oranges operating here.  Unless one knows they aren't going to accept anything, meaning if it can be sensed with any of the 5 senses it is not real.

 

An A-theists = A = not or without theism = God/god.  Without G/god.  They actually do believe, but their belief is there is no G/god.  They have a belief system the opposite of the Theist.

 

Now there may be a few that will argue those definitions, but those are the etymology of the two words.

 

I'm sure the Agnostic has put a bit of thought into the process, but has concluded there is no way of knowing.  They just leave it at that.

 

 

Better correction here: ask people who call themselves "atheist" and/or "agnostic" (and plenty are both, like me) what they mean by the terms, not other people.

[qwazse]

Better correction here: ask people who call themselves "atheist" and/or "agnostic" (and plenty are both, like me) what they mean by the terms, not other people.

In what age is it better if a lexicon depends on who's saying the word?

Oh, never-mind.

[Stosh]

In this day and age it would appear that people can redefine themselves at the drop of a hat.  Why would agnostics and atheists be any different?  It used to be male and female, now the list of options has gone into the realm of sublime.  Maybe this has something to do with some ancient tower called Babel.