Affraid son is loosing interest already, and I am discouraged

[Eagledad]

@@Eagledad, you just summarized a sort of pop-culture self-help book I've read recently called "The Power of T.E.D."  

Hmm, that's a little concerning. I've never heard my name and the words "pop-culture" used in the same sentence before. 

 

Barry

[blw2]

@@blw2, this is where I would have a short chat with the SM and ask him why he does not have that same conversation (the one he gave to the PLC) with his SPL, then let his SPL deliver the news and manage the PLC.

 

It seems to me the SM likes doing what he is doing. He may not feel he's being an SM when he sits on his hands and let's the boys do things.

 

We had a meeting Monday night. Had 10 Webelos visiting, of which we hoped to get maybe 2-3. My job was to meet with the parents while the Webelos attended the meeting. I spent an hour with the parents simply answering their questions. I invited them to go watch the troop do its thing. Nearly every parent was concerned that I was not running the meeting; that the adults were simply either running SMCs or standing around quietly assisting when needed. I reminded them that's how Scouts works. At the end of the meeting all ten wanted to sign up. Their sons insisted and the parents obliged.

 

Any chance your SM can be brought to see the light that is boy-led? Or is he just an existence justification freak?

Yeah, I'm kinda thinking the dynamic is more complex than this.  I guess I painted that picture, but truthfully the SM is pretty good about letting the scouts do some things.... you might say the scouts "run" the general troop meetings more often than not, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are "leading".  He and the other ASM's too, do a fairly good job of this I think.....  They do a good job I think, but at the same time not so much.... if that makes sense.

The few times i have observed at camp, they are pretty good too about giving the scouts space.

 

Your story of 10 scouts visiting and 10 adults joining.... makes me shudder a bit.  That has the makings of becoming very adult heavy.  If you're not careful you'll have adults standing around thinking they need to do something...  I think that is kindof our troops thorn.  We have several scouters that are very active and very involved

Edited February 8, 2017 by blw2

[Col. Flagg]

Your story of 10 scouts visiting and 10 adults joining.... makes me shudder a bit.  That has the makings of becoming very adult heavy.  If you're not careful you'll have adults standing around thinking they need to do something...  I think that is kindof our troops thorn.  We have several scouters that are very active and very involved

 

Hmmm. Not sure how the boys running everything and somewhat idle adults leads to "adult heavy". 

 

The one challenge when things are going well in the boy-lead department, is challenging the adults to do stuff at all. All too often they see stuff getting done by the boys and wonder why they need to be there at all. When we on-board the adults we are very clear on their role and the necessity of being their but not affecting things too much. 

 

We are like police: When things are going good you don't see us, may not even know we are there. If you do see us and are inclined to act up you may think twice. But if something goes wrong, we are there in full force, executing our training and capabilities. 

[Stosh]

Why is it we adults are so often blind to our own mistakes?  Adults telling the boys how to be boy led?  Doesn't anyone see the hypocrisy in all of that?  As UC and even at time "listening" here on the forums, what some adults call boy led just doesn't make much sense.

 

Unless one feels totally useless as a contributor to the operation of the scout unit, he/she's too involved! 

 

Train 'em -- okay, that's no problem.  Trust 'em -- that's the hard part that many never get their heads around.  Let 'em lead -- not until we trust them and that doesn't happen very often, if at all.

[blw2]

Hmmm. Not sure how the boys running everything and somewhat idle adults leads to "adult heavy". 

 

The one challenge when things are going well in the boy-lead department, is challenging the adults to do stuff at all. All too often they see stuff getting done by the boys and wonder why they need to be there at all. When we on-board the adults we are very clear on their role and the necessity of being their but not affecting things too much. 

 

We are like police: When things are going good you don't see us, may not even know we are there. If you do see us and are inclined to act up you may think twice. But if something goes wrong, we are there in full force, executing our training and capabilities. 

 It makes things adult heavy only from the context of having more adults on the roster than necessary.  i didn't mean that it necessarily must lead to adult lead or anything like that..... but I'd guess odds are in favor of that.

I think adults that are willing to fill out the application have a desire to help.  A lot of folks that want to help don't do a great job of standing around with their hands in their pockets and their mouths shut....

 

Remember, in the purest since of all of this, most of scouting could and arguably should run without adults in the room.....and when that adult is in the room, it's generally going to be the SM, who is merely there as an adviser or counselor of sorts.  Then, outside that room add in an ASM or three to the roster, and 4-6 good committee members and that is a full house for an adult roster.  So that's around 10 adults maybe....do you really need 10 more?

[Col. Flagg]

It makes things adult heavy only from the context of having more adults on the roster than necessary.  i didn't mean that it necessarily must lead to adult lead or anything like that..... but I'd guess odds are in favor of that.

I think adults that are willing to fill out the application have a desire to help.  A lot of folks that want to help don't do a great job of standing around with their hands in their pockets and their mouths shut....

Depends on how you train the adults. We let them know that their help is needed in background. We had a great SPL who was in to theater, so he presented regularly at our new parent meeting. He likened adult help to a play. He'd say, "Parents are like the stage crew. They are in the back working, not out front acting. You may see them between scenes moving stuff around, but the actors are the ones out front when the lights go on." He later revised that analogy to move the parents to the lighting crew only and making the Scouts the stage crew.

 

Remember, in the purest since of all of this, most of scouting could and arguably should run without adults in the room.....and when that adult is in the room, it's generally going to be the SM, who is merely there as an adviser or counselor of sorts.  Then, outside that room add in an ASM or three to the roster, and 4-6 good committee members and that is a full house for an adult roster.  So that's around 10 adults maybe....do you really need 10 more?

Yeah, it's called Venturing.

 

I get your point. But realistically no kid is going to run a 70+ Scout troop including all of the background logistics, etc. They can do the planning, execution and such, but payment, adherence to insurance rules, transportation, etc., is coordinated by adults. With a large troop that's where those idle adults during troop meetings come in to play.