fred johnson Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 This is a no win situation if I ever saw one, so why should we not dump scouting as fast as we can?" We may or may not like the change, but society is going through contortions right now over these issues. The real question is how can BSA focus on the key benefits BSA can provide without being damaged by current day politics. Essentially, it better to be involved in society than to be separate. I'm not going to leave. It is not healthy to be stuck in the past and issolate ourselves. We talk about citizenship, character and physical fitness. Let's find a way to continue driving those goals. Now I have my opinions too and they probably are not very popular in the liberal area. But BSA shines the most when we focus less on politics and focus more on values, getting out and doing things. Don't worry about letting boys be boys. Worry more about teaching them how to swing an axe; how to port a canoe; how to not bath for a week and still smile. At some point, being negative is beyond not scout like. It's something we don't want to teach our scouts. IMHO, the only real damage that can occur here is by being too reactionary. Day to day, this means little to our units. Let's get back to focusing on our scouts. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaSloth Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 It appears this is already happening. Would it surprise anyone what her father does for a living? Guesses? Wait for it....he's an attorney!! THIS!! The arrogance in this girl/family makes me want to completely vomit. "I'm going to make them conform to me" BS! The thing with Trail Life is that it doesn't have the coveted "Eagle Scout" rank that we all look to put on our son's resumes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 My son and I will be looking into Trail Life USA. I like Trail Life in that it has a nice functional easy web site. But it's just not a real option for most scouts in our area. It doesn't have the infrastructure or membership. There are seven troops in our state. BSA has 500+ of troops in our state. It's just not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaSloth Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 At some point, being negative is beyond not scout like. It's something we don't want to teach our scouts. Needs to be discussed, as long as the discussion is being productive. Change is not always good - especially when it is forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I am foreseeing a conversation with my troops CO going like this "So if we treat Helen Joe like a boy and something goes wrong as a direct or indirect result we could very well face a lawsuit. If we treat Helen Joe like a girl and offend her him or a parent, or some trans rights group we never heard of, we face a lawsuit anyway. If there is a local option (is there?) and we say 'No trans' we may get hit as well This is a no win situation if I ever saw one, so why should we not dump scouting as fast as we can?" Right now I can't think of a single answer. you? When one reads the press release, it does not appear anywhere that I can tell that units have to take the girl. It merely says that "we will accept and register youth in the Cub and Boy Scout programs based on the gender identity indicated on the application. Our organization’s local councils will help find units that can provide for the best interest of the child." Of course, you are right. If Troop 000 denies the girl membership then the parents will release the lawyers and the CO and the unit leaders will get sued. I wonder how long it is until someone can identify as another race? If you grow up in a white community and "feel" white, can you check that box too? It's just a matter of time before that happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numbersnerd Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I do not know if it was in jest or serious as it was an email. But one father said he would say his daughter identify as male so she could join Scouting. BSA has opened a can of worms. As mentioned previously, their presence is predicated on a violation of the Scout Law and thus should be invited to leave post haste. Edited January 31, 2017 by numbersnerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyke Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Lordy lordy all this period talk! Your giving me the vapors. Seems, in the rare case that would happen, to be another scouting opportunity for improvisation and what not. Good reason to have a necker on hand I suppose. I've had to deal with autistic kids, sociopathic boys, bedwetters, and a kid with a cancer port. I suppose I can deal, in the unlikely event, with this one. What I REALLY want to know does this mean I need to attend an additional training course and if so how much of time will it take. this is from the UK scouting fact sheets if people are worried about someone having a period (having had a kid break a leg on camp, a period would be easy to deal with) There should be sufficient toilet and washing facilities to ensure the privacy of the young people. Facilities for the disposal of sanitary towels and tampons should be provided, and Leaders should arrange a supply of spares in case of unexpected emergencies. There might be occasions when a girl starts her period on camp, or is caught unexpectedly. Leaders should be prepared to support her discreetly and sensitively, as they would with any personal difficulty that a young person encounters on camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred johnson Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Of course, you are right. If Troop 000 denies the girl membership then the parents will release the lawyers and the CO and the unit leaders will get sued. That would be a very hard lawsuit to win in most cases as most units are chartered by churches and those churches usually treat it as an extension of their youth program. As such, it has freedom of religion protection. I wonder how long it is until someone can identify as another race? If you grow up in a white community and "feel" white, can you check that box too? It's just a matter of time before that happens. Yeah, that already happens in every direction. I have a friend who is another race, but calls himself white because his strong cultural connection is local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 We may or may not like the change, but society is going through contortions right now over these issues. The real question is how can BSA focus on the key benefits BSA can provide without being damaged by current day politics. But Fred, it is the current day politics that is damaging what makes Boy Scouts special. It was a place for boys to be boys in addition to all the other stuff you mention that makes the program great. Guys cannot go anywhere these days without being reminded of their "male privilege" or "[insert color here] privilege or their "toxic masculinity". By taking this step -- which was a clear surrender to the liberal progressive ideology -- BSA has taken away one of the last places a guy can go to be a guy. If boys wanted coed they'd go to Venturing. They want the old BSA program because it provided a place for guys to be themselves AND learn all the great things the program has to offer. If we -- and I mean society -- truly wants everyone to be equal, we'd get rid of all the check boxes on all the forms. No more boxes to check for loans, college, jobs, etc. Just pure equality. But we both know that is not what the liberal progressives want. They want the majority to feel just as subjugated as others have in the distant past, so that they majority feels what it is like to be discriminated against. It is Bakke on steroids. I have no issue with all-girls clubs, all black clubs, all Asian clubs, etc. They're private and they have an agenda they want to put forward. Great. I don't join them and try to change them. Or worse, I don't sue them to try to change them to what *I* think they should be like. I just wish those über tolerent people would have the same consideration for us. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Flagg Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yeah, that already happens in every direction. I have a friend who is another race, but calls himself white because his strong cultural connection is local. I had a Scout who had Hispanic ancestry (grand parent) so he ticked that box on a college application. The college inquired about his ancestry because his name did not sound "Hispanic". After four weeks of questions, calls and emails, they rejected his application based on his "mis-representation" of his race. Ironically enough, he was about as multicultural as you can get...and it was a liberal CA university. Thankfully, he got a free ride to an in-state school. He's better off. But it illustrates how one-way the street really is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numbersnerd Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I have no issue with all-girls clubs, all black clubs, all Asian clubs, etc. They're private and they have an agenda they want to put forward. Great. I don't join them and try to change them. Or worse, I don't sue them to try to change them to what *I* think they should be like. I just wish those über tolerent people would have the same consideration for us. Tolerance is only a guise used to disarm the target and paint them in a negative light. The sad thing is that for all these concessions, the BSA gets what? Nothing. Actually, less than nothing. Once this issue is behind us, i'ts forgotten by the SJW's and their mob of supporters. Will they suddenly be the new demographic for the BSA? Are their checkbooks now open? Ha! For all the changes in recent years, the BSA is still smeared in derogatory labels and continually pressured to concede even more. At the same time, their base is leaving at an accelerated pace with each policy reversal. So adding nothing new and losing what you had is a net negative. To what end? Simply put, it's cowardly abandonment of everyone that supported, built, grew, and believed in what the BSA sold for so long. The brand and product is becoming so diluted and tarnished it's depressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I haven't read the whole thread, have neither the time nor inclination, but I have scanned through. Various thoughts I don't have time to type right now except one. Periods. From experience. I've had girl cubs and girl scouts on camp. Sanitary towels are on the personal kit list. We also take a pack with us to camp should anyone need them and have forgotten. They're left in the same place as the first aid kit and extra toilet roll. It's never been a problem. Chill out on that one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchadbo Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Having read through this, the crux of the posts are a variation of "SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED" (emphasis is mine). Now, if this is a trensgender boy, having lived as a "boy", identifying as a "boy", acting dressing and playing like a "boy" are you even going to know who this is? that is the point of this. Right now we are excluding boys who want to be in Scouts because their birth certificate does not match their gender identity. Aren't we in this to help the boys be boys. That is what this is allowing, that boy, who happens to have "wrong" genitalia, to be included with his friends in a fun character building program. Seems that is the Courteous thing to do. Kind, Friendly and Brave apply too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaSloth Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 "Courteous" "kind" "friendly" "brave" go out the window when lawsuits are involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldscout448 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 We may or may not like the change, but society is going through contortions right now over these issues. The real question is how can BSA focus on the key benefits BSA can provide without being damaged by current day politics. Essentially, it better to be involved in society than to be separate. I'm not going to leave. It is not healthy to be stuck in the past and issolate ourselves. We talk about citizenship, character and physical fitness. Let's find a way to continue driving those goals. Now I have my opinions too and they probably are not very popular in the liberal area. But BSA shines the most when we focus less on politics and focus more on values, getting out and doing things. Don't worry about letting boys be boys. Worry more about teaching them how to swing an axe; how to port a canoe; how to not bath for a week and still smile. At some point, being negative is beyond not scout like. It's something we don't want to teach our scouts. IMHO, the only real damage that can occur here is by being too reactionary. Day to day, this means little to our units. Let's get back to focusing on our scouts. Two points Fred, first I was in a coed Explorer Post back in the days before Venturing and I assure you the boys were indeed boys and the girls were girls, and some of them were very much in love. At least they thought they were .A lot went on in the small hours on the night that I am sure the adults didn't know about. So yeah that worries me. I remember what it was like to be young and in love. I also remember what it was like to be young and stupid. Grown up games often have grown up consequences. Second, about 70% of scout troops are chartered by churches, my troop is one of the 30%. If we need to find another place to meet,store our gear,etc. after 25 years it will mean a lot to us day to day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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