Transgender policy change

[Chadamus]

Just last night I overheard the SPL tell one patrol grubmaster "No poptarts." It's nice when they can decide for themselves. Even if that decision is pop tarts for breakfast.

[Stosh]

When I was an ASM in one of my former troops, the patrol method, boy led was not even on the horizon.  The adults ran the troop. Period! 

 

They did, however, allow the boys to do their own menus.  One canoe trip the boys planned a hot dog lunch so that all they need do was boil the dogs and while this cauldron came to a boil, they went swimming and horsed around.  I always brought my own food and was considered an outsider and one that didn't go along with the flow.  (Surprise, surprise!)  Anyway, while they boiled dogs, I made sweet and sour pork over rice for lunch out of my mess kit.  I figured I wasn't going to canoe all afternoon with a gut full of dogs.  Needless to say, it caught the attention of everyone and the boys called "foul".  "How come Mr. Stosh gets good stuff and we don't" obviously chimed in by those who didn't prep the menu. 

 

Needless to say, on the next outing, I was called in to counsel the boys when they prepped the menus.  The menus improved immensely after that.  The same old, same old went by the wayside.  The adults were vocally upset with me because now it entailed a lot more work for them.    Their concerned bothered me for maybe 5 seconds before it went away.  The boys were more active in their menu planning and they picked up the pace when it came time to do the cooking.  2 birds with one stone.  The excitement waned after a while and when the boys went back to the old ways because it was easier.... except for a handful of scouts that formed up their own patrol (much to the adult's chagrin) and turned out some really good meals for themselves.  Of course they couldn't use the troop's stoves, etc. because the troop was using it, but they became very proficient with cooking on wood fires.  They borrowed my extra Dutch oven and basically set the tone for boy-led, patrol-method.  After a year of that "hassle", the SM put his foot down, disbanded the patrol, and within a week, I was with a new troop.  Some things just don't have a solution. 

[Col. Flagg]

I am all for the free choice of food. However, as a Cooking MB counselor our Scouts know that Pop Tarts won't get a check box for the patrol cooking requirement for any meal. If they want that or cereal or doughnuts, more power two them; however, they won't get Requirement #5 signed off. 

[EagleonFire]

And see we eat donuts at many campouts, as a side treat. And they are fried over a campfire. We don't just open a box of crispy cremes. The 4 pack of biscuits for 1.25 at Walmart make 40 small donuts and donut holes. Mix up a simple glaze and there is a deliciously unhealthy treat.

[Chadamus]

Stosh, somehow I knew you had that story in you. I love it. My version is cooking my breakfast quiche in a dutch oven and hearing the boys say "That smells so good." I said "It will taste even better. The great thing is it's so easy almost. . . anyone. . . could do it." I expect to smell quiche from my sleeping bag soon. ☺

[Eagledad]

 

We've had threads on how to encourage our Scouts to plan menus that don't include hot dogs, hamburgers and pop tarts and folks have come up with things like iron chef contests and Troop cookbooks.  Folks that said they just ban these from menus got pushback from folks saying let the Scouts make their own choices.  I don't think we ever came to any kind of consensus (not that this group could).  There is also inconsistency in what is banned.  Sodas banned but not pop tarts.  Candy banned but not soda. 

 

I think part of the issue is that this is a complicated topic.  It seems that what is healthy and what is not changes every other day.  Coffee is good for you one week and bad for you the next - now it's good for you again, or is that bad for you again - who knows?    Maybe the answer isn't to ban anything but to have the Patrols prove up how hot dogs or pop tarts are part of a nutritious and healthy menu if they want to have them.

That' kind of what we did.

 

This appears to be a complicated topic, but what makes it complicated is how to guide the program so that the scouts learn from their freedom of making choices. If the experience is supposed to be a growing experience, than theoretically the scouts grow toward healthier menus without outside guidance. What scares adults is the will abuse the freedom and live a junk food weekend o each Boy Scout camp out. Right?

 

The discussion is kind of going in the direction pitting health concerned adults against the uncaring junk food attic youth. It wasn't that way for us because we took adult directing out of the exercise. At least in dictating what scout could bring anyway. We did help the scouts understand some of the health issue a little better when situations occurred. But the way we took the adults out of the discussion was letting the Scout Handbook guide the scouts. The handbook is pretty good guide on nutrition and healthy meals. Or was, I know the book has gone through a couple of revision. Our scouts know that they are expected to use the scout handbook for all their guidance that it will apply. In fact they even made skits about how they needed to reference the handbook for guidance.

 

So when the scouts are told they have no restrictions to menus other than the guidance of the handbook, they feel pretty good about the freedom. And at first they will push the boundaries Way-over-the-line, but as they abuse their freedom, they start to see the consequences as well with hyper scouts who stay up all night, litter (lots of litter), not feeling good, and bad behavior. Of course the SM may ask the SPL for a surprise camp inspection while the scouts are activities to find the litter or visit scouts during meals. As Eagleonfire pointed out, proper hydration is very important and when a scout shows the slight bit of problem, everyone is on it quickly. But, in truth the scouts and adults already know who is abusing their freedom before it gets to that point.

 

So while the SM may suggest or hint to the SPL that some guidance may be required, we found the PLC was ready for the discussion because in truth, Patrol Leaders don't like the abuse either, once the understand the limitations of proper nutrition. Surprising to me, our patrols went from bringing a case of coke to the first campout to not bringing any at all by their forth. The litter and disobedience of the scouts drove the PLC to limit two cans per scout per campout. The litter issue continued and drove the PLC to only allow two 1 liter bottles for Saturday Night only. We are a back packing troop, so the hassle of carrying 1 liter bottles for only Saturday night dinner drove most patrols to give it up all together. So, in six months time, sodas came and went without the adults getting involved. Well not to involved, the Scoutmaster did show the SPL BSA literature requiring adult responsibility for the scouts health. But, the Scout Handbook pretty much drove the standards. I think what the scouts really enjoyed was the freedom, but once the newness of it was over, the hassle of the soda and other unhealthy foods was more than they wanted.

 

The hard part about this is being patient and cleaver enough to figure out how shape the freedom so that the scouts learn from their experience. I can honestly say we stumbled around it, but it work for the most part. I'm not promising your results will be the same, but I will say our experience can give you some hope the scouts do eventually prefer health and nutrition, with in reason. Our troop does have a tradition of stopping at a local store on the way home for junk food, provided they break camp early enough to get us home by 2:00 pm.

 

Oh, I will add that since the first day the first 16 scouts started the troop, there has always been a requirement for the patrols to cook all meals except lunch. I don't know if that makes much difference in this discussion. That wasn't so much for nutrition as it was to prevent skipping meals. 

 

Barry

[Stosh]

So the question comes up.... Do we as adults lay out rules and expectations BEFORE the meal planning or do we do After Activity Reviews afterwards as a learning process?

 

I don't do much on the front end, but seem to get a lot of traction in the after market area.  Given freedom (within limits) doesn't help the boys make good choices.  How far can we bend the rules and not break them becomes the focus rather than evaluation and learning following.  So, who'd that heavy egg bake with all that sausage grease work out for you after paddling a canoe all day in the hot sun?  "Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson." So why is everyone in such a hurry to avoid the experience by making up rules prior to the lesson? 

 

http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/trail-mix-many-calories-9884.html

 

When I was reenacting at a national event where there was no refrigeration and modern food supplies were frowned upon, 2500 calories of trail mix of one's own making could get me by for the 4 day weekend.  Put it in a cloth bag and nibble all day long.  No one could figure out why I never cooked any meals.    Now it isn't going to pass any MB requirements, but it does make for better eating than junk food such as poptarts and hot dogs.

[Cambridgeskip]

So the question comes up.... Do we as adults lay out rules and expectations BEFORE the meal planning or do we do After Activity Reviews afterwards as a learning process?

 

I don't do much on the front end, but seem to get a lot of traction in the after market area.  Given freedom (within limits) doesn't help the boys make good choices.  How far can we bend the rules and not break them becomes the focus rather than evaluation and learning following.  So, who'd that heavy egg bake with all that sausage grease work out for you after paddling a canoe all day in the hot sun?  "Experience is the hardest teacher. It gives the test first, then the lesson." So why is everyone in such a hurry to avoid the experience by making up rules prior to the lesson? 

 

I think that there is a middle ground to be reached here. Yes we do need to allow scouts to learn from experience but I also think that training them does involve setting certain parameters. So I will insist that there are protein sources, I will insist on fruit and vegetables. (I won't allow fizzy drinks!) I won't dictate what they are. I will allow them to learn that some things are messier than others, not ideal when there's a lot of program to fit in. I will allow them to learn that penne cooks quicker than spaghetti. I will allow them to learn that high sugar in summer means lots of wasps. And so on. But we are dealing with kids and they do actually need to be taught a few things before they get started. The initial parameters and learning from experience are just two sides of the same coin.

[TAHAWK]

As suggested by several anecdotes here, "good menus" can be encouraged by cooking competitions and other examples.  Adult ideas are fines.  Adult cooking codes are not necessary.

[NJCubScouter]

Or we could just follow the "role model" set by National, and give the kids conflicting advice until one day we suddenly stop giving them any advice at all, hand them a Code of Conduct they've never seen or heard of before, and then claim that some (but not all, and don't tell them which is which) of the previous advice was just an April Fool's joke.  

[TAHAWK]

EoF, this is a discussion because it's a big country. And add the Brits who kindly chime in, sometimes on behalf of other Europeans, it's a big hemisphere.

 

With older units, the adults should have their tents pitched at some distance from the youth.

I suppose, with classic scouting (to steal a term from another thread) the SM left his wife behind. I wouldn't know, my SM was a retired bachelor who lived with his sister -- and she never set foot on a campout. I did have a Jamboree SM who was on the younger side, and he made it quite clear that he was excited to get back to his wife and baby at the end of the week. It was a trait that I admired.

 

Blame my Arab-American heritage, but allowing a husband and wife their own tent is as old as Genesis. To me, that trumps any "we're here for the kids" high horses. ( That's how we get all of those kids. )

 

It doesn't hurt to know that some of the ways we click aren't automatic to other people. Winding up with an exchange student or family in your unit is more likely than people realize. So, knowing that folks from outside our respective communities would expect things to work differently helps us to be prepared.

 

Found among the 527 Scouting Commandments:

 

"BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA SCOUTER CODE OF CONDUCT

 

On my honor I promise to do my best to comply with this Boy Scouts of America Scouter Code of Conduct while serving in my capacity as an adult leader:

 

. . .

6. I will not discuss or engage in any form of sexual conduct while engaged in Scouting activities. I will refer Scouts with questions regarding these topics to talk to their parents or spiritual advisor."

[Col. Flagg]

And they are just realizing this?   

 

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/gender-expert-teens-are-trying-to-be-transgender-because-its-trendy/

[Stosh]

If one can change their gender simply by feeling that way, I'm going to get my children's pass to the movies tonight because my wife's been telling me I'm acting like a 12 year old.  Might as well jump at it while I can. 

 

Me: Ma'am, I would like one child's ticket to tonight's movie.

 

Ticket Lady: I'm sorry but you look to be a senior citizen.

 

Me: But I feel more comfortable being 12.

 

Ticket Lady: I'm sorry we can't do that, would you like a senior ticket it's the same price?

 

Me: No Ma'am, I want the child's ticket and I don't like you stereotyping me as one who is chronologically advanced.

 

Ticket Lady: I'm truly sorry but we simply can't do that.

 

Me:  Now you have offended me with your bigotry and you'll be hearing from my lawyer.

[TAHAWK]

Ageism!

[DuctTape]

while I know that quip is meant partially as humor, it also demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding (or mischaracterization) of what it means to be transgendered.