Transgender policy change

[TAHAWK]

We keep saying that Patrol Method works because scouts learn from their decisions. Some decisions, even in their simplicity, are very good teachers because they expose ones balance of discipline and self desire. I personally like scouts to see their strength and weaknesses of making choices, so we presented them with many choices, most of which they didn't realize was on purpose. 

 

We adults can't force a scout to change his behavior, he has to make that change himself for it to be a life change. Scouts are more likely to change when they see their consequences repeatedly. It's easy to tell a scout his behavior is wrong. The challenge for scouters is presenting scouts in situations where their personal choices motivate their changes of behavior.

 

Is a coke all that much different than candies, cup cakes, Pop Tarts, cell phones, and techs like Gameboys? Health depends on the balance of mixing treats within a healthy diet. Of course we adults can restrict temptations from scouts for their own good, or we can allow those choices in a safe environment where they face the consequences of their choices. The more consequences they face, the more they learn of themselves.  I found cokes, and other treats, to be a very good test for scouts to see themselves.

 

Barry

Worth thinking about.

 

Alcohol and tobacco kill many times more than all other drugs combined.  The recent nightmare d'jour - H - is killing "only" 50,000/year.

 

Obesity?  Dunlop's Disease?

[Stosh]

One needs to adjust one's statistics to the percentage of the population.  Alcohol and tobacco kill more people simply because they are legal drugs.  Yet more people die of diabetes and obesity issues and nutritional concerns than any illegal drugs.  

 

It's just a matter of picking your poison the the buffet of deadly desserts.

 

Since the 1980's the US has been near the top of the list of malnourished countries in the world.  Overweight and malnourished at the same time.  Whadda country, eh?

Edited April 9, 2017 by Stosh

[David CO]

So now they're saying that gay and transgender are fine, but soft drinks and snacks are a mortal sin and must be prohibited.  Unbelievable!

[Col. Flagg]

So now they're saying that gay and transgender are fine, but soft drinks and snacks are a mortal sin and must be prohibited.  Unbelievable!

 

Unless you are gay or transgender and are peddling soft drinks and bad snacks, they you are prohibited again.

[EagleonFire]

They can't have sodas? Hmmm

So your adult rules are more important than my adult rules?

Barry

I never said they were more important. I said what the rules are in my group. I also gave you my opinion.

 

out of interest, whats wrong with kids having Soda ? its only the same as juice, just carbonated ?

Soda does nothing to keep the kids hydrated so I don't allow it. It's hard enough to make sure they are drinking, I don't want to fight what they are drinking. I couldnt care less about the sugar or other unhealthy effects of it. Shoot, the way we sat on a campout is far worse than the effects of a soda.

[Stosh]

Hmmmm, making up rules to keep the boys healthy vs. teaching them healthy habits so that one doesn't need the rules......... I wonder which is more effective?

[EagleonFire]

Well my group is 5-8 years old. So yes I make up rules that keep them healthy. In hopes that it becomes a healthy habit in all of their future outdoor activities. They do get to make many of their own choices but for the time being my group is young enough that they need rules to teach them the right way

[David CO]

Well my group is 5-8 years old. So yes I make up rules that keep them healthy. In hopes that it becomes a healthy habit in all of their future outdoor activities. They do get to make many of their own choices but for the time being my group is young enough that they need rules to teach them the right way

 

I am not going to make the same mistake twice and forget that you are talking about a campfire club, not a BSA unit. As I understand it, teaching healthy living skills is a major component of Campfire.  

 

I believe the same would be true of 4H clubs.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Boy Scouts have always placed less emphasis on this area of the program than have other organizations.  I suspect that this is because Campfire started out as an all-girl club (Campfire Girls) and BSA started out as an all-boy club.

Edited April 9, 2017 by David CO

[EagleonFire]

I am not going to make the same mistake twice and forget that you are talking about a campfire club, not a BSA unit. As I understand it, teaching healthy living skills is a major component of Campfire.  

 

I believe the same would be true of 4H clubs.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Boy Scouts have always placed less emphasis on this area of the program than have other organizations.  I suspect that this is because Campfire started out as an all-girl club (Campfire Girls) and BSA started out as an all-boy club.

They do focus on healthy living skills quite a bit but the no sodas on campout scones from my years as a Boy Scout. During the summer in Oklahoma a kid drinking sodas all day and not having water can get dangerous. It can easily reach 105 degrees here ona summer day and in fact was in the low to mid 80s here this weekend. That with physical exertion requires water. We still do flavored waters to go along with regular though

[Eagledad]

Eagleonfire, my scouting experience as both a youth and adult for the last 50 years are in Oklahoma City. In fact I live just up the road from camp DaKani. While physical health is important during outdoor activities here, Scouts of the Boy Scout age are very capable of making the right decisions for their health.

 

My reply to your post wasn't so much to your words as it was to your condescending tone. I agree leadership for eight year olds is different than scoutmastering for troop age Scouts, but there are better ways to present an opinion in a discussion.

 

Barry

[David CO]

I've never been to Oklahoma, but I understand that a good part of Oklahoma came here in '32.  Thank you kindly.  My garden is growing great.

Edited April 10, 2017 by David CO

[EagleonFire]

No tone was intended but after rereading my first posts I can see where it could be interpreted that way. I do feel strongly about the no alcohol on a scouting function. As a person that wants to be a positive influence on these kids I wouldn't want to let them down by repeating any bad habits they may see elsewhere. The alcohol was a battle I had to fight with a couple of parents and a former assistant leader early on. They were under the impression we were just a bunch of friends taking our families camping together.

 

The.comment about sodas was a poorly separated thought that was to be to the side of the alcohol thing. It was meant as a this is what I do with my group. The parents didn't like it at first but I found so long as we keep a 5 gal jug filled with water that has had some of those crystal light (generic version) packs around they don't mind too much. I just push with the kiddos it is a 1 to 1 mix to keep us good. For every 1 glass of flavored water drink 1 glass of regular water.

 

I should probably also tell on myself for my one bad habit I do have is that about 30 minutes after the kids go to bed I break out a nice cigar as a bit of a victory dance for another good weekend with the scouts

[Chadamus]

I can't help myself anymore. Usually I'm content to sit back and listen.

 So are EagleonFire's adult rules more important than my adult rules? I'm with TAHAWK. Yes, they are. For his boys they trump any rules any of the rest of us make up. Because they're his boys. And there's a huge difference between a boy that can drive and one that has just started school. 
 

Is a coke all that much different than candies, cup cakes, Pop Tarts, cell phones, and techs like Gameboys? Health depends on the balance of mixing treats within a healthy diet. Of course we adults can restrict temptations from scouts for their own good, or we can allow those choices in a safe environment where they face the consequences of their choices. The more consequences they face, the more they learn of themselves.  I found cokes, and other treats, to be a very good test for scouts to see themselves.
 
Barry

What if they enjoyed that late night cigar with EagleonFire? A ridiculous question maybe, but where do we draw the line? Sugar is ok? Tobacco no? Alcohol? EagleonFire, I share your views on alcohol at campouts. I wait until I get home. Guilt is an unwanted ingredient in my beer.
 
With all due respect Barry, the short time I've spent reading your insights and perspectives have helped me immensely. The constant reminder of your decades of experience however can come across as condescending. Since this thread has broached that issue as well.
 
And tyke, if you can tell me I can buy gallon of carbonated 100% prune juice from a grocer on your 'side of the pond,' i'll be right over.
 
Back to the tent with my wife...

Edited April 10, 2017 by Chadamus

[qwazse]

How is this even a discussion? In something that is supposed to be for the kids I find it very disappointing that adults even have to talk on whether they need to keep it in their pants during a campout spouse, significant other or not. This just seems like a given. Besides after a day in the woods covered in dirt and smelling like a campfire who would want to touch each other anyway.

EoF, this is a discussion because it's a big country. And add the Brits who kindly chime in, sometimes on behalf of other Europeans, it's a big hemisphere.

 

With older units, the adults should have their tents pitched at some distance from the youth.

I suppose, with classic scouting (to steal a term from another thread) the SM left his wife behind. I wouldn't know, my SM was a retired bachelor who lived with his sister -- and she never set foot on a campout. I did have a Jamboree SM who was on the younger side, and he made it quite clear that he was excited to get back to his wife and baby at the end of the week. It was a trait that I admired.

 

Blame my Arab-American heritage, but allowing a husband and wife their own tent is as old as Genesis. To me, that trumps any "we're here for the kids" high horses. ( That's how we get all of those kids. )

 

It doesn't hurt to know that some of the ways we click aren't automatic to other people. Winding up with an exchange student or family in your unit is more likely than people realize. So, knowing that folks from outside our respective communities would expect things to work differently helps us to be prepared.

[CalicoPenn]

We've had discussions before on banning food choices versus encouraging healthy food choices.  Seen through the lens that EagleonFire brings, I'm thinking we're just not very consistent or good at it no matter which way we lean.  I think David CO is right -we don't place as big an emphasis on healthy living as other youth organizations do.  We play lip service to the idea (to keep myself physically strong) and touch on it in ranks and merit badges, but we really do a poor job of it.  Not only do we not do a very good job at it, the amount of pushback we get when healthy living does rear it's head is amazing to me. 

 

We had a recent thread where people were comparing modern merit badge requirements against early requirements with a lot of discussion centered around the cooking merit badge.  There were folks who thought that the requirements and emphasis on nutrition and safe food handling were just not needed.  The argument was that the merit badge was too much like school work, that they would get the information elsewhere (like school) and that the badge needed to be simplified because Scouts couldn't handle the complexity of merit badge requirements (frankly, I believe its because these adults couldn't handle the complexity of the requirements).  Forget that we know so much more about nutrition and food safety than we did 100 years ago.

 

We've had threads on how to encourage our Scouts to plan menus that don't include hot dogs, hamburgers and pop tarts and folks have come up with things like iron chef contests and Troop cookbooks.  Folks that said they just ban these from menus got pushback from folks saying let the Scouts make their own choices.  I don't think we ever came to any kind of consensus (not that this group could).  There is also inconsistency in what is banned.  Sodas banned but not pop tarts.  Candy banned but not soda. 

 

I think part of the issue is that this is a complicated topic.  It seems that what is healthy and what is not changes every other day.  Coffee is good for you one week and bad for you the next - now it's good for you again, or is that bad for you again - who knows?    Maybe the answer isn't to ban anything but to have the Patrols prove up how hot dogs or pop tarts are part of a nutritious and healthy menu if they want to have them.