Transgender policy change

[Back Pack]

At RT this week this was the topic....and just how long it will be before we are coed.

[NJCubScouter]

At RT this week this was the topic....and just how long it will be before we are coed.

 

Was that the official roundtable topic?  Sounds like a waste of a roundtable to me.

[NJCubScouter]

I think it will be another PR problem for BSA if the first female Eagle Scout is transgender. 

 

When you refer to a "female" who is "transgender", in this situation you are referring to a child whose birth certificate says they are a girl but who is now "living as a boy", and whose membership application (signed by their parents) says they are a boy, right?  The BSA now regards that person as a boy.  Many in our society regard him as a boy, though many others regard him as a girl.  So I suppose anything the BSA does in this area is going to cause a PR problem with somebody.

[RememberSchiff]

When you refer to a "female" who is "transgender", in this situation you are referring to a child whose birth certificate says they are a girl but who is now "living as a boy", and whose membership application (signed by their parents) says they are a boy, right?  The BSA now regards that person as a boy.  Many in our society regard him as a boy, though many others regard him as a girl.  So I suppose anything the BSA does in this area is going to cause a PR problem with somebody.

 

Yes. The "somebody" are all the young ("living as girls"?) women who wanted to join Boy Scouts, or as Venturers, and earn Eagle Scout but were turned away.

[TAHAWK]

To quote the great philosopher, Rickey Nelson:

 

 

 

But it's all right now, i learned my lesson well.

You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself

[NJCubScouter]

Yes. The "somebody" are all the young ("living as girls"?) women who wanted to join Boy Scouts, or as Venturers, and earn Eagle Scout but were turned away.

 

Well, those among them that believe that transgender is a "real thing" shouldn't have a problem with it, since it would follow that all Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are "boys" regardless of what their birth certificates say.  (That doesn't count the non-transgender girls that have apparently been admitted to Cub Scout packs either as a so-called pilot program or under LFL or by local units breaking the rules, etc.)  For those among them that think that "trans boys" are just girls in disguise, or something, it would be a different story.

 

Does anybody besides me find the terminology very awkward when discussing this subject?  I mean the whole boy/girl thing has gotten kind of confusing in this thread.  And I find that in the preceding paragraph, I used the term "non-transgender", which is a term that probably does not exist.  Out there on the rest of the Internet I have seen a term "cisgender" (or "cis") which is used (largely by transgender people and those who are more into new words than I am) to describe those of us whose birth certificates match our gender identity, or what I just called "non-transgender".  In other words 99.7 percent of people.  But I don't really think that terminology is widely understood in this forum or that people here (including myself) really want to use it.

[Col. Flagg]

Does anybody besides me find the terminology very awkward when discussing this subject?  I mean the whole boy/girl thing has gotten kind of confusing in this thread.

 

Only because we make it confusing. I thought God had taken care of most of the problem by making two sexes.

 

When @@RememberSchiff said "first female Eagle Scout is transgender" I took that to mean a girl, who wants to be known as a boy, makes Eagle.

[CalicoPenn]

Can we just eliminate the need for the terms "transgender" and "cis-gender" completely?  I really don't care about some long, complicated story or explanation about why a man becomes a woman or a girl becomes a boy -  that's between them and their families/counselors.

 

It's completely unnecessary for Caitlyn Jenner to call herself "transgender", for Chaz Bono to call himself "transgender".  Caitlyn is a woman, Chaz is a man - done - not further explanation is needed.  I don't care what it says on their birth certificate - if Caitlyn says she's a woman, she's a woman.  If Chaz says he's a man, he's a man.

 

If a girl believes she is actually a boy, despite having "girl parts" and her family is ok with it and treats her like a boy, and signs her up for the Boy Scouts as a boy, then who am I to say otherwise.  It's really none of my business.  If Jessica becomes Joe and signs of for scouts as Joe - I'm calling him Joe.

 

All the rest can rest be handled in your unit with a little bit of common sense.  

 

We spent ages in here on the gay youth issue and the gay leader issue with a lot of predictions on the earth spinning off it's axis into the sun (ok - that's hyperbolic, but you get the idea).  And yet here we are - and not much has actually changed - there were some units that folded but many of them got picked up elsewhere - that massive movement predicted to Trail Life - or whatever they're calling themselves these days - never happened - and it appears that they're losing units.  All those chartered partners threatening to leave - like the LDS - never left.

 

I think the BSA just decided not to go through all that drama over this decision - they spent all that time struggling with the gay issue and at the end of the battle, nothing changed - the sun still rose, membership is still declining (for a lot of different reasons - not just one social issue - heck, the fact that our birth rate has been steadily declining since it's last mini-peak in the 1990's likely has a lot more to do with it), all that angst for nothing.  Sure, we lost some units - but maybe the units we lost weren't all that great to begin with.  We lost some volunteers - but maybe it was long past time for some of them to go.   It's been two years - the earth is still rotating, the BSA still exists.  And we're still trying to convince people that think that they know better that yes, truly, the BSA program of Boy Led is in fact, superior.  But given that we essentially went through all that sturm und drang for nothing, it seems to me that the BSA learned there lesson from it and just made the decision and is getting it out of the way.  It won't even be in the national news next week at all (it's barely news now) - a far cry from months and months and months of damaging news reports.

 

Every time we discuss all these issues, and what's happening to the Boy Scouts, we all seem to come to a consensus eventually - it's PROGRAM, PROGRAM, PROGRAM!  Is your unit failing?  Look at your program.  Are Scouts "eagling out" (really, quitting at 15)?  Look at your program.  Are Scouts bored?  Look at your program.  It's not women leaders, gay boys and gay leaders, and it won't be girl-boys either.  It's PROGRAM.

 

We do have a lot of very successful units with great programs - how do I know that?  Because a bunch of girls want to join.  So let them - and lets work with the Girl Scouts on this - they have a different set of program priorities.  Maybe it's time for these groups to finally merge in to Scouts USA.  Maybe it can be done without either group having to be subordinate to the other.  Imagine a Scouts USA that has two different tracks (much the way Venturing and Exploring (err, Learning for Life) have become).  One track is outdoor adventure, camping, canoeing, etc. and the other track is STEM.

[Col. Flagg]

Who are we to not honor what people want to be called? Wouldn't want to marginalize anyone.

 

BTW, I feel like royalty, so for now on you can address me as, "My Lord". It's how I feel. 

[Back Pack]

Who are we to not honor what people want to be called? Wouldn't want to marginalize anyone.

 

BTW, I feel like royalty, so for now on you can address me as, "My Lord". It's how I feel. 

Now THAT'S funny!

[CalicoPenn]

Colonel Mylord Flagg?  Can I shorten it to Myles?

[Col. Flagg]

Colonel Mylord Flagg?  Can I shorten it to Myles?

 

The proper title would be, My Lord Flagg. My rank would only be used in military situations...or at District RT when everyone wears their silver beavers.

[mashmaster]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article131920399.html

 

Think Boy Scouts have lost their way? You’ve made a grave mistake

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article131920399.html#storylink=cpy

[TAHAWK]

Scouting belongs to the "people"?  That's a change in position.  

[NJCubScouter]

Scouting belongs to the "people"?  That's a change in position.  

 

It's just rhetoric.  (I think you know that.)

 

Overall, when I read this thing, I am of two minds.  I agree with the basic theme of what he is saying.  But I also have no interest in what he is "tired" of, even if I am tired of some of it too.  Stop whining and do your job, Scout Executive of the Mecklenburg County Council.  If you can't stand the heat, get away from the campfire.  Or something like that.