Tour Plan?

[MattR]

This was posted on our council website a few days ago:

 

The Boy Scouts of America has notified all councils that, effective April 1, 2017, filing the BSA Tour and Activity Plan for review by council offices will no longer be required.  The purpose of this letter is to inform you of that change to the process for Scouting units planning activities and outings away from their scheduled meeting places, as well as how that affects the chartered organization.

A cross-functional team has completed an evaluation of the BSA’s Tour and Activity Plan, resulting in a recommendation to terminate the plan effective April 1.  This team concluded that terminating the requirement would:

• Eliminate review and processing procedures by the council staff, thereby freeing staff to focus on membership and removing an administrative burden.
• Reduce complexity of planning activities and outings, thereby cutting back on processes and paperwork for unit leaders.
• Increase consistency with the Commitment to Safety, the Guide to Safe Scouting, Risk Assessment Strategy, as well as Camp Standards planning tools.
• Change the conversation, engaging everyone in risk-based planning vs. process.

This change does not remove the need for unit leaders and their chartered organizations to properly plan every aspect of outings, including ensuring that required trained leaders are present at all times during such outings, and the training dependent upon the activities being conducted (e.g., an activity involving water craft will still require leaders to be trained in the Youth Protection Program, Safe Swim Defense, Safety Afloat, Basic First Aid, and CPR).  Similarly, vehicle insurance requirements remain unchanged.

[Back Pack]

Not sure why I continue to be surprised that BSA is ineffective when they communicate or administer anything.

[RichardB]

Disappointing when you scroll down to the most recent post and see this:

 

  2 user(s) are reading this topic

2 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

 

• Chadamus, RichardB 

 

 

Yet no response...

 

But Chadamus, didn't you just respond with this post?  I wouldn't be dissapointed with yourself.  

 

As to me, my response is it's an interesting thread, I like how the OP was Tour Permit (went away in 2011) and now this post is Tour Plan (Went away in 2012).   The assumptions seen in the thread are all over the place, and anyone with a dissenting opinion or not into bashing BSA, National, Councils really doesn't get heard.   See no reason to respond further for risk of being called names.  Like pedantic.  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedantic  Actually had to look it up, if we use the orginal Shakesperian interpretation, I'd take it as a compliment.   Maybe, just maybe if folks assumed the best from others you wouldn't be dissapointed.   Otherwise, y'all have fun.  

[Chadamus]

I don't assume the best. I expect it.

Two threads were merged, but that's not the point.

Interesting thread indeed.

If I were the one that could give some clarification and did not then yes, disappointment from others would be expected.

[Col. Flagg]

@@RichardB, since I started one of those threads I will respond.

 

First, tour permit versus plans. Okay, I will cop to using the wrong word. So we can agree that the thread title should be Tour Plan going away. My fault.

 

But, your first post is not really clear. You say permits went away in 2011 and plans went away in 2012, but you give a link to process and document called Tour and Activity Plan. So you'll have to forgive our confusion because when we read "Tour and Activity Plan" we think "Tour Plan". There's no semantics there, we mean the process by which units need to complete the online plan for various activities. We may not have used the full name, but when we say "Tour Plan" we meant Tour and Activity Plan.

 

Still unclear is why you say the Tour Plan went away in 2012, when there is clearly a website and a document which is required whenever we travel outside of council. You can imagine our confusion. Rather than be helpful and explain why the TP went away, yet there is still an active link to something required to travel, you simply leave it to our imagination as to what you meant.

 

Lastly, there's BSA bashing going on because of the following:

• There is a total lack of communication coming from BSA on an important administrative issue that affects your members.
   
• The existence of the Tour and Activity Plan's link, with no mention of it sun-setting, adds to the confusion of your members.
   
• The mismanagement of this issue, lack of communication and coordination, are just another straw on the back of the camel of volunteerism. An organization whose very motto is "Be Prepared" is doing nothing to prepare its paying members and volunteers to effectively execute the BSA program.

A simple official post from someone in authority, outlining the timeline (giving enough advance notice) and what will be expected in future, communicated through national, council and district channels would have stopped ALL of this. Some call it courtesy, others call it doing one's job.

 

I'd rather see such information communicated to me and my unit then read about Bob Smith taking over some council I will never visit, or the fact that Jan Stevens got a Silver Beaver. BSA missed the mark on this and, rather than accept accountability and clear things up, we get more excuses and blaming us for our frustration.

 

Sorry, but there are few of the Laws left BSA hasn't broken on their handling of this issue.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Col. Flagg

[DuctTape]

A Scout is helpful. It is obvious that help is not being provided by someone with specific knowledge of the subject, and instead is obsfucating (might need to go look that one up as well). That is unfortunate.

[NJCubScouter]

A Scout is helpful. It is obvious that help is not being provided by someone with specific knowledge of the subject, and instead is obsfucating (might need to go look that one up as well). That is unfortunate.

 

Well, if you do look it up, spell it "obfuscating".    But that is the right word, and (as my previous posts on this subject may indicate) I agree with your other words as well.

[desertrat77]

 

 

As to me, my response is it's an interesting thread, I like how the OP was Tour Permit (went away in 2011) and now this post is Tour Plan (Went away in 2012).   The assumptions seen in the thread are all over the place, and anyone with a dissenting opinion or not into bashing BSA, National, Councils really doesn't get heard.   See no reason to respond further for risk of being called names.  Like pedantic.  https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedantic  Actually had to look it up, if we use the orginal Shakesperian interpretation, I'd take it as a compliment.   Maybe, just maybe if folks assumed the best from others you wouldn't be dissapointed.   Otherwise, y'all have fun.  

 

Richard, even a modern-day synonym for "pedantic" could be a compliment (exact, precise, etc.).   But, oftentimes, your input is not exact.

 

If you have insights from your perch in scouting that would benefit those of us in the field, please share them.  And we'll thank you for them.  Otherwise, the hinting with no revelation, the clouding of the issue, and the defense of the status quo generally results in threads ending like this.

Edited March 28, 2017 by desertrat77

[5yearscouter]

So on a National Level, the requirement for Tour and Activity Plans (AKA Tour Plans that replaced Tour permits) went away for every single campout.

They were only required for a specific set of campouts, out of council--and that requirement is still listead as required on all BSA docs/websites/blah blah.

 

But National allowed Council's to set their own Tour Plan policies.  MOST council's including Grand Canyon Council (AZ) required Tour Plans for every overnight campout, Climbing and Swimming/water activities, plus anything over 25 miles from home.

So we've been plugging away trying to follow the rules, and filing our Plans every month like obedient scout leaders.

 

So even if national makes them go away completely and remove the online way to file them, doesn't mean that council's couldn't make a different decision based on their interpretation of risk.

 

I actually don't like the idea of them going away, they were one check that seemed to make our SM sit up and pay attention to making sure every campout had a trained leader and enough drivers, and had an ACTUAL PLAN. Our SM isn't on the very organized scouter's list.

[Back Pack]

So on a National Level, the requirement for Tour and Activity Plans (AKA Tour Plans that replaced Tour permits) went away for every single campout.

They were only required for a specific set of campouts, out of council--and that requirement is still listead as required on all BSA docs/websites/blah blah.

So....national DIDN'T get rid of tour plans. Gee @@RichardB, you wonder why people are confused? Edited March 29, 2017 by Back Pack

[5yearscouter]

So....national DIDN'T get rid of tour plans. Gee @@RichardB, you wonder why people are confused?

Yes I believe that is what @@RichardB was referring to, that you didn't have to do a tour plan for everything since likely 2012.

But he is WRONG that they went away completely in 2012.

If National is the one doing the research on tour plan helping the outcome from a safety point of view, were they looking only at National Tour plans? Or all tour plans including the 1000 I've done for our local council over the years for regular campouts and the trip to the local pool and climbing wall etc? 

 

Filling out the little piece of paper/online form would be highly ineffective to help with safety, due the basic fact that you could click that this or that adult had the necessary training for the outing activity, but the national system then didn't go pull data from myscouting national database of training data, to verify that yup that adult actually is trained to take kids climbing or shooting or minimal swimming safety

[frankpalazzi]

Since no one can get a concise answer, including our Troop, here's what we're doing:

 

Be it resolved that the Earth will still rotate, and the Sun will still rise in the East on April 1st:

 

We see no need to cancel or modify our April activities.  If the TAP is available online, as it has been, we fill it out and submit it.  If it's not there, then we don't.  No hand-wringing. No agonizing. We follow the same rules as outlined on the document (Training, properly licensed drivers, insurance) because they make sense.  Common sense.  The possible elimination of a form doesn't mean the elimination of common sense and good practice.  We deal with too much paperwork as it is; it's time to step up and be responsible.

 

Maybe make several copies of the TAP, fill one out for each activity, and leave it with the CO instead of the council, if the council suddenly decides it doesn't want it.  As long as someone has it.  If you're not up-front about insurance requirements and properly trained leaders, then shame on you and your CO.  There are consequences. Know before you go.

 

Seems pretty simple, no?

Edited March 29, 2017 by frankpalazzi

[Back Pack]

Learned something interesting. The national policy is underwritten by a board member. That's not right.

[SSScout]

"EMERGENCY< EMERGENCY...  Everybody to get from street........"   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TszIJX-F4U

[RememberSchiff]

Maybe our BSA membership card should include our insurance underwriter (MHBT?), policy number, Council point of contact. I have not seen or read the actual policy, Anyone, anyone ...Bueller, Bueller? I have read the Council-issued sparse insurance certificate stating general liability insurance coverage exists.

 

Why not a link to the insurance policy pdf on the Council website?