ownership of scout units

[qwazse]

.... From my point of view the BSA has lost it's integrity. So there is no point to insurance to, "get back things" The point is the CO shouldn't have to have insurance. Honesty, Trustworthy, Loyalty. Scout Oath and Law.

From the day my shirt with it's awesome lodge flap "disappeared" from my tent at National Jamboree, I knew not to expect that sort of thing from any group of more than a dozen. From similar happenings in secular clubs and religious groups, that opinion has only been enforced.

 

BSA has no incentive to disbar scouters who haven't been charged with anything. Nor does any society run mainly by volunteers. Boot the volunteers, and it's even-odds they'll haul the organization to court to retain their right to stay and defend their good name. No matter who wins, everyone except the lawyers lose.

 

So, either you convince the boots on the ground to take things seriously and assume responsibility for their property in a court of law or via bonding, let things go and work for the smiles on kids faces, or quit.

[TAHAWK]

He has said he quit: "These are the reasons I scouted. They are also the reason I don't no more."

[Stosh]

If I based my contacts with this world on the handful of immoral and unethical of this world, I would have become a hermit 40 years ago.  Instead I chose to work with young adults to ward off that possibility for their lives and give them a chance at a better world one person at a time.

 

Seriously, it's the only thing that keeps me going.

[Shift12345]

I my last post i should put Honor as one of the reasons to scout also. Insurance companies can't get that back either, nor can the CO. That is or was part of scouting.

[Shift12345]

 I would agree if it were just a handful. But when it comes from the Organization itself, then it is time to quit. The BSA should drop the Scout Oath and Law and be honest as to what the Organization, it's members, and the CO will have to put up with. Because the young people in this situation didn't learn anything good.

[Shift12345]

If you continue "to let things go" and act as if nothing happened. what are you supporting and working for then? What is the message you are sending to the young people.

 Ignore what is not right and it will not exists? I think a better message is, fix what you can and if it can't be fixed get rid of it.

[qwazse]

I my last post i should put Honor as one of the reasons to scout also. Insurance companies can't get that back either, nor can the CO. That is or was part of scouting.

There is no doubt that it would be a formidable thing if one could go through their life as a scouter without crossing scouters who take advantage of the system dishonorably.

 

At the opening of our University of Scouting weekends, our council president would start by thanking us and reminding us that we, not someone at national, are the "gatekeepers" of scouting. Far too few CORs attend those events. So, it comes as no surprise when they set the stage for a hot mess, and when outsiders who are called in to look at it decide the cake can't be unbaked and walk away.

 

At the end of the day, a scouter needs to look at the facts on the ground and decide: "Am I reaping enough in boy's smiles to stay, or can I fulfill my calling to a greater degree elsewhere?"

 

So, you left the BSA and evidently the one CO. Have you considered how what you've learned as a scouter will enable you to continue to do right by the youth of this world?

[Stosh]

I am a SM for a small troop 20 miles from where I live.

 

I do a lot with the youth of my church congregation (just as much as I do for BSA troop) (30 miles from where I live)

 

I do a lot with the American Red Cross, 2500+ hours a year, and so far 2 national disaster deployments as well.

 

Why?  BSA doesn't offer enough valuable opportunity to work and help the way other organizations do.

 

My scouts are working on their advancement, having a great time learning valuable skills and maybe someday earn the rank of Eagle.

 

My church youth group is planning out next year's mission garden that will supply fresh vegetables for the food pantry with enough supply of hearty winter squash to supplement the Salvation Army's cafeteria.  In their spare time, they make lap quilts for the nursing home residents in the area.

 

The scouts may think it's cool to eat MRE's on their weekend campout, but serving 150 MRE's in a hurricane shelter with no electricity is vital to the welfare of these people and can in no way be defined as "cool".

 

So with all the hassle being expressed as a deal breaking heartache against the BSA, which one of these activities offers me the most personal satisfaction as it's reward?  So, how critical is it when someone walks off with some troop's popcorn money? vs getting supplies to someone who has to shovel 2' of mud out of their living room?

 

With all that needs to be done, is a 2 weekend of Scouting for Food really all that important in the needs of the greater good?

 

Maybe we don't need to toss out the Oath and Law, just make a few changes such as "take care of ourselves at all times" instead of "help other people at all times" and A Scout is Helpful.  Surely we can drop that charade of Duty to God, and A Scout is Reverent, too. 

 

Stop and think about it for a moment.  Other than an Eagle project, when was the last time any unit did a fundraiser for someone other than themselves and their ISA?

 

There's a reason why the BSA has lost it's luster.

[TAHAWK]

Last weekend.  Raised money for Doctors Without Borders.  

 

There are crooked cops, crooked preachers, crooked salesmen, crooked doctors, crooked PTA members, crooked teachers, crooked tool booth operators, crooked car makers, etc.

 

Millions of people are involved in Scouting.  They do different things.

 

You can go on denouncing or do something to make it better. 

 

You can focus on the bad ones or find, associate with, and support the good ones.

 

"Brighten the corner where you are."

[Stosh]

That's why I'm still in Scouting after 50+ years. 

 

One can't hold others accountable for their taking advantage of others, but the Scout Oath and Law mandate we hold ourselves accountable instead.  That part we do have control over.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Stosh

[Stosh]

Level 1 Conflict - "An adult leaders took the popcorn money from the troop." (Everyone knows what's going on and they can start to seek solutions.)

 

Level 2 Conflict - "Troop #53 is having all kinds of financial problems." (Confuse the issue by not defining the problem, can't find a solution to a problem  that can't be identified.)

 

Level 3 Conflict - "ASM Smith is causing all kinds of problems over in Troop #53." (Add a little blame to the situation always helps...NOT!)

 

Level 4 Conflict - "I see Troop #53 is back at it again with all the drama they seem to always have". (It's a game some players seem to enjoy.  Game continues as long as everyone stays with it.)

 

Level 5 Conflict - "Some of the people in Troop #53 are starting a new troop down the street."  (DIVORCE, Game over, it's not fun anymore and someone's got to go!)

 

Level 6 Conflict - "Those people over in the new troop over by Troop #53 aren't going to be happy until they steal ever member of Troop #53."  (Jihad/Holy War, It ain't over until the other side is totally wiped out, even if we are wiped out in the process.

 

 

The sad part of it all is only conflict at level #1 can be resolved.

 

Level 2 can be resolved if clarified and taken back to level #1.

 

Level 3 can be resolved if everyone realizes blaming someone does not do anything for resolving problems. Who started it isn't as important as who is going to stop it.

 

Level 4 and above - unresolvable.  It's a waste of time to try. 

[MattR]

Shift, it seems to me that what you really want, the purpose you're here, is to convince us that the BSA is not worthy and that we should leave. You never really asked a question. It was always a statement. So all I can think is you want us to join you in your denunciation of the BSA. We won't. While we all see weakness in the BSA we stick around because we know it also has it's good. Some kids learn something and have fun doing it. That's all we're looking for.

 

You said "I can't teach young people about the Scout Oath or Law, when I know that is not what all scouts are." If everyone followed that logic nobody would teach religious school at any religious organization. For that matter nobody could teach a child anything about the police, the FBI, medicine or any other organization that claims to make the world a better place, because they all have their problems. You're done with scouts and that's fine. You're not the first to leave angry. I understand your frustration and don't blame you for it. At the same time I still enjoy working with kids and seeing them smile when something works. I don't expect a perfect organization or perfect kids. As long as I keep feeling like I'm making a positive contribution I will keep at it.

[Stosh]

Hmmmm.... I don't get that read. He is not running down BSA,just pointing out where there are those who have their heads in the sand. Ignoring the problems doesn't solve anything, nor does Pollyanna conversation. People who care and speak up are at least defining there is a problem. That's the first step in dealing with it. Enough heads in the game and maybe things can get better. If I didn't believe that I would not have spent the last few years on this forum.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

He is running down BSA AND suggesting its not right to be Scouters when BSA is so bad: "[i[t's time to quit."

 

Not for me.  I will soldier on, trying to make things better as best I can with my imperfect understanding and imperfect skills.

[Stosh]

Every one has their limits, sometimes it just isn't working anymore and it's time to move on. People know when they get there.

 

I am still hanging in there, but I have considered other options for my life along the way.