Patrol JTE

[ItsBrian]

31 minutes ago, MattR said:

Really good point, @ItsBrian. In fact I offered them the option of deciding their own reward and I'd get the committee to pay for it. I even gave them some ideas to choose from. Adults would cook them something good for a campout. Pizza party. A campout without any adults around. I think they saw the check boxes and stopped right there.

I tried something similar with my Troop as SPL. We tried a chart for going out of your way and helping someone such as the CO, etc., but eventually they gave up. No idea why, but they don’t. 

[scotteg83]

On 06/05/2018 at 5:13 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Sadly effective October 1, 2019, the Patrol Method will be no more. They can no longer do any activities,i.e. meetings, day hikes, grocery shopping, service projects, etc by themselves. They will need 2 registered adults over 21. In essence the Patrol Method is being replaced by Cub Scout dens.😡

 

 

I can understand your frustration, but I don't see this as "Cub Scout Dens".  As a leader myself, I have always offered to the Patrols to be available for events with enough of a heads up.  Being at that patrol event, will not stop them from doing anything differently then they should have on their own.  I do not hover and correct them until they come to me for guidance, but even then, I point them to an older knowledgeable Scout first.

Leadership requirements do not change the method and ideas of Scouting, its just another CYA from BSA that has to be made since others have let mistakes and issues happen.  Rules are only there because someone didn't have the common sense themselves.

[John-in-KC]

Why would anyone impose METRICS BASED MANAGEMENT on youth who are supposed to be playing a game with a purpose?

Edited June 7, 2018 by John-in-KC

[NJCubScouter]

On 6/5/2018 at 8:18 PM, ItsBrian said:

You should’ve had an incentive. Food, something that would’ve embarrassed a leader, meeting with only games, etc...

Make the last-place patrol sing "I'm a Little Teapot," in 8-part harmony?     

[ItsBrian]

12 minutes ago, NJCubScouter said:

Make the last-place patrol sing "I'm a Little Teapot," in 8-part harmony?     

That would work, and maybe lose a few scouts along the way. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by ItsBrian

[NJCubScouter]

Hey, when I graduated from 8th grade, in 1972, the entire class (about 350 kids I think) had to sing the song "Teach Your Children", which at that point had been out for 2 or 3 years.  I don't think anyone decided not to graduate because of it, but there may have been some parents who went fleeing into the night.  I am sure it was truly horrifying. 

[NJCubScouter]

41 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

Why would anyone impose METRICS BASED MANAGEMENT on youth who are supposed to be playing a game with a purpose?

Well, that question would also apply to troop-level JTE, right?

[John-in-KC]

I've not liked JTE since Day 1, and I was a UC. It's metrics management.  That's lean six sigma stuff. Why in God am I asking volunteers to sweat over numerical micromanagement of a program license agreement?

[oldbuzzard]

15 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

I've not liked JTE since Day 1, and I was a UC. It's metrics management.  That's lean six sigma stuff. 

 Maybe 6 sigma/iso9000 whatever, but certainly nothing to do with lean. Lean, TPS, continuous process improvement, Covey's sharpening the saw, whatever you want to call it is actually a bottom up process for improving workflow and capturing innovation. Scouting actually tries to do a good job with this. Both the plan-do-review framework and Thorns and Roses are Lean by another name. The problem with JTE is the rigid top down metrics that don't allow for small scale organic improvements that are likely to be more meaningful long term.

[ParkMan]

27 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

I've not liked JTE since Day 1, and I was a UC. It's metrics management.  That's lean six sigma stuff. Why in God am I asking volunteers to sweat over numerical micromanagement of a program license agreement?

I'll admit - I don't dislike JTE.  JTE is simply a Management By Objective tool.  In essence, a troop JTE is encouraging us to do:
- have a budget
- recruit new members
- retain your current members
- encourage Webelos to cross over
- encourage Boys to advance
- hold monthly camping trips
- go to summer camp
- do service projects
- use the patrol method
- proactively recruit adults to help
- get your leaders trained

None of these things are crazy.  When I see troops that get less than Gold, it's because they're not trying on some of these general things.  "What, I actually need to recruit new scouts?" "You mean a troop really has to go to summer camp?"

My only knock on JTE is that it can be tough to assign owners.  The Scoutmaster gets about 40% of them.  Would be good to be able to assign individual items to different adults leaders. 

 

[JoeBob]

Boys respond to instant gratification.  Delayed reward that comes as the result of planning and working towards a goal, well, that's work. A JTE patch with multiple years on your shoulder is rewarding, but it's not really fun.

A large package of Oreo cookies won in a patrol competition? Now that's fun!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MattR]

On 6/7/2018 at 10:44 PM, JoeBob said:

A large package of Oreo cookies won in a patrol competition? Now that's fun!!

We did that for a while. The first time we did it it was huge. After 3 or 4 times it was: okay sure. After a few more times it was: before we do this, do you have dark chocolate? It was kind of an addiction, except I heard no reports of them stealing from their parents for the next fix.

[JoeBob]

When you have patrol equality (not the same winners all the time) it's great.  When one patrol started winning more often than not, I was gratified to see them slipping some cookies to the losers who competed well.  Then we changed the competitions to something the matched the losing patrol's skill set.

[MattR]

Oh, we did have rough equality. Maybe my scouts are just spoiled with sugar at home. What turned out being better was just bragging rights. It's not that they were doing end zone dances or anything but we'd just give a big cheer to the patrol that won and that was a bigger dopamine fix than the sugar.

We had an axe competition at our last camporee. All they got was a cheap ribbon but wow did they get into it. Sudden death in an axe competition is quite tense. Not only that but just the term sudden death in an axe competition got them excited.

But back to patrol motivation for jte, maybe I should just chuck the idea and figure out more games that involve potential dismemberment.