hiker67 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Ms. Trump does not have her hand over her heart. Barack Obama was taken to task when he did the same at another event. Protocol allows for military personnel and veterans to hand salute the flag. Civilians, including the President, should place their hands over their hearts, unless they are in uniform for other reasons. The Obamas had their hands over their hearts during the inaugurations. (I've read that Eisenhower never saluted when he was President.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 When in doubt, stand at attention. That in and of itself is a sign of respect for the occasion. If I was in Canada and they were playing the Canadian National Anthem (Oh, Canada), in order to show my respect, I have stood quietly at attention. When in doubt, just stand at attention. That is universal sign of respect. Like I said Mrs. Trump is doing just that and if the Obamas were chastised for that, then shame on those who did so. President Trump is NOT a civilian, he is Commander-in-Chief of all things military in the United States. A salute of respect is appropriate as was for my father, whom I never saw in military uniform, but always hand-saluted the flag when appropriate. As a radio/navigator/belly gunner on a US Navy torpedo bomber during WW II at the age of 17, he earned that right. President Trump, and as for former-President Obama when he was in office, is entitled to that same right. Former-President Eisenhower never saluted? Does that mean he simply stood at a respectful attention as Mrs. Trump is doing? If I had a dollar for every time I see someone showing less respect for our Flag than shown by President and Mrs. Trump in this picture, I'd die a rich man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker67 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 The President is commander of the military but is not part of the military. The framers of the Constitution placed the military under civilian control in order to avoid the problems faced in the European empires. Only Congress can fund the military and only Congress can declare war. The DOD has a document on the subject of civilian control at: http://archive.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45870 The President doesn't qualify for military benefits, unless he/she was in the military previously. Military personnel must salute the President, but the President is not required to return the salutes. Similarly, the secretaries of defense and the military branches are also civilians; in fact, military experience is not required for any of those positions. I believe Eisenhower placed his hand over his heart as other presidents did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleP Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Isn't the most important thing that they were showing respect for the flag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker67 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Isn't the most important thing that they were showing respect for the flag. For most people, myself included, yes. But there are those that scrutinize every politician's lapel for a US flag pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Okay, I'll bite 1) Mrs. Trump has been a US citizen for only 10 years. I will cut her a little slack in the US Flag Code for civilians. Is the First Lady a "civilian"? I dunno. Probably. I'm not going to judge. When in doubt, stand at attention. Which she is doing. 2) President Trump is Commander-in-Chief of all US military. Military salute is in order. Civilian FLAG CODE does not apply to non-civilians. Commander-in-chief of the US military is still a civilian. this was by design. Presidents saluting the military in return is fairly new (around Reagan). I dont have context for the photo tho, are they standing for the flag, or military on parade as they pass by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Whereas the salute is now a sign of respect, whether it be a hand to the eyebrow, a hand over the heart, a sword swoop, or simply standing at attention, it is all the same. Like @@UncleP said, they are all showing respect, and for me that's better than most out there. I Scout Salute when I'm in uniform, hand/heart salute when not, When I was a reenactor I saluted with hand, gun and sword depending on what rank I was currently in. I never served in the military in that I was medically unqualified and given a 4-F designation. I appealed it and was denied. And I also stand at attention and face the Canadian flag when Oh, Canada plays. As far as that picture goes, the serious expression on each of their faces says more than which salute they happen to chose to honor the flag. I haven't seen such an uproar about saluting since John Kennedy, Jr. saluted his father at his funeral. Edited January 23, 2017 by Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 The president is definitely a civilian. But it is a unique civilian position. Members of the military salute the president and there has been some discussion over the years of whether the president is supposed to salute back. I personally don't care what the president does with his hand when the flag is going by. In the current administration, it doesn't even make the list of things I'm concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianwilkins Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Isn't the most important thing that they were showing respect for the flag. Yes. Unless you're looking for a stick to beat someone with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 This has nothing to do with anything, but can anyone tell me the branch of service and rank of the military officer standing in the middle of that photo? I used to have sort of a generalized familiarity and interest in U.S. military uniforms, but apparently I haven't kept up. I am pretty sure it is an Army uniform, but what about the rank? I understand that the insignia on the shoulder is not visible, but there is that wide stripe on each sleeve. I thought that was just a Navy thing. I know we have some military people here who will know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walk in the woods Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 This has nothing to do with anything, but can anyone tell me the branch of service and rank of the military officer standing in the middle of that photo? I used to have sort of a generalized familiarity and interest in U.S. military uniforms, but apparently I haven't kept up. I am pretty sure it is an Army uniform, but what about the rank? I understand that the insignia on the shoulder is not visible, but there is that wide stripe on each sleeve. I thought that was just a Navy thing. I know we have some military people here who will know the answer. Looks Army to me. Double eggs on the brim of the cover so "up there" a ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattR Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Haven't a clue, NJ. He looks like he's wearing an army uniform but I thought the pants were supposed to be blue. As for his rank, he's got stars, or he wouldn't be standing where he is. What does strike me is his posture. Note to self, never salute while standing next to someone in the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 This has nothing to do with anything, but can anyone tell me the branch of service and rank of the military officer standing in the middle of that photo? I used to have sort of a generalized familiarity and interest in U.S. military uniforms, but apparently I haven't kept up. I am pretty sure it is an Army uniform, but what about the rank? I understand that the insignia on the shoulder is not visible, but there is that wide stripe on each sleeve. I thought that was just a Navy thing. I know we have some military people here who will know the answer. In most navies a single broad ring on the sleeve is a commodore or equivalent (so equivalent to an army brigadier) but like you say in most countries it's a navy or air force thing. Also brigadier/commodore while a senior rank still seems rather junior to be stood where he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fehler Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 That is Major General Bradley Becker, according to Google Image Search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJCubScouter Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 That is Major General Bradley Becker, according to Google Image Search. Thanks Fehler. And Google tells me that Gen. Becker is commander of Joint Force Headquarters - National Capital Region, which explains what he is doing in the middle of that picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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