Trans Scouting (Use other thread for new policy)

[Eagledad]

 

Technology does indeed make for interesting times. And those who are uncomfortable with it need to learn to live with it because 'it' is not going to stop. Even better, the changes brought by technology are accelerating.

My advice: enjoy the ride.

Ah, the Technology. Your continued condescending speak only exposes no confidence to even attempt swaying minds with logic or reason in a civil tone. Not unlike when gay activist suggested technology was on their side as well. They couldn't prove it either. And how could they, the workings of the mind are so complicated that there isn't technological method yet that shows unquestionable proof of ones natural gender.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

I was thinking about this over lunch, so I'll have to add to what was going to be my only comment to this....

At 8, a kid might know if they like pink clothes, or if they lean towards blue.   They probably know if they want sequins or lace on their clothes, or not.

But that's not really having anything sexual orientation is it?

 

It is all social norms....  In Korea if you prefer pink, you're a boy, you need to prefer purple to be a girl.    I'm thinking anyone who adopts a Koren child is going to have a difficult time picking out nursery colors unless they go with pink to cover the either/or of the problem. 

[Eagledad]

But how do you know it's "deception"?

 

I really don't think this has anything to do with religion or morals or ethics. Based on a small amount of reading I have just done, it appears that a very small number of people (about 0.3 to 0.6 percent) are certain that their gender does not match the gender that was "assigned" at birth based on their physical attributes. Isn't it possible that this very small number of people are "wired" differently than the rest of us? Who am I (or you) to say it's not possible?

We as a culture should have a set of safe behavior guidelines to protect our youth when they are going through times of confusion. Giving acceptance to every thought of an inexperienced undeveloped immature juvenal mind should be a crime. Acceptance of allowing the child to evolve toward that emotion is the same as contributing to the choices they make in their future. I contend the BSA needs to save the volunteers and it's reputation from that contribution. I guess it comes under "Do no harm."

 

Barry

[cyclops]

We as a culture should have a set of safe behavior guidelines to protect our youth when they are going through times of confusion.

 

It's called 'Youth Protection'.

 

Giving acceptance to every thought of an inexperienced undeveloped immature juvenal mind should be a crime.

What level of crime do you advocate? What would you call it?  What punishment?

 

Acceptance of allowing the child to evolve toward that emotion is the same as contributing to the choices they make in their future. I contend the BSA needs to save the volunteers and it's reputation from that contribution. I guess it comes under "Do no harm."

 

Role models? Hello? You can't be an active leader in a youth organization without making those contributions.

[NJCubScouter]

We as a culture should have a set of safe behavior guidelines to protect our youth when they are going through times of confusion. Giving acceptance to every thought of an inexperienced undeveloped immature juvenal mind should be a crime. Acceptance of allowing the child to evolve toward that emotion is the same as contributing to the choices they make in their future. I contend the BSA needs to save the volunteers and it's reputation from that contribution. I guess it comes under "Do no harm."

I will readily admit that I, too, am not certain that an 8-year-old has the ability to make this determination. But what if he is? You say "Do no harm", but if what she (in this case) is really correct and you force her to pretend to be something she is not? For how long? Ten years, until she is an adult? Not to be overly dramatic, but I think there's a good chance she wouldn't live that long.

Edited December 28, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[Eagledad]

It's called 'Youth Protection'.

 

What level of crime do you advocate? What would you call it?  What punishment?

 

 

Role models? Hello? You can't be an active leader in a youth organization without making those contributions.

If you are as self-righteous and judgemental of scout leader role models who don't agree with cultural inclusiveness as you are to just us in this discussion, just imagine your reaction to their natural behavior. What you suggest is forcing scouting adults to show acceptance even when they disagree. That is not role modeling, that is propagandizing.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

Role models? Hello? You can't be an active leader in a youth organization without making those contributions.

Well, I think I understand what Eagledad is saying there. If a young person is going down the "wrong path" by deciding to live life as the gender that does not match his birth certificate, by excluding that person from Scouting the leaders will not "contribute" to the young person going further down the "wrong path." But it always comes back to the assumption that the young person is going down the "wrong path." In Eagledad's view there is no room for the other possibility, which is that the path being taken by the young man in this article is, for him, the "right path". If indeed it is, it is probably still going to be a very bumpy path, and in that case we as leaders CAN make a contribution - a positive contribution, to a hopefully positive future for this young person.

[cyclops]

If you are as self-righteous and judgemental of scout leader role models who don't agree with cultural inclusiveness as you are to just us in this discussion, just imagine your reaction to their natural behavior.

I'm not all that concerned about the 'natural behavior' of scout leaders, whatever it is you mean by 'natural behavior', as long as the YP is not violated.

 

NJ, I agree...I think....

My point is that any level of positive leadership is going to have some kind of influence on the young person. To me this issue is all about 'control' and has little to do with what might be 'best' for any particular young person.

Edited December 28, 2016 by cyclops

[Eagledad]

I will readily admit that I, too, am not certain that an 8-year-old has the ability to make this determination. But what if he is? You say "Do no harm", but if what she (in this case) is really correct and you force her to pretend to be something she is not? For how long? Ten years, until she is an adult? Not to be overly dramatic, but I think there's a good chance she wouldn't live that long.

I am saying that the BSA should not take sides at all. I get the feeling you are taking my opinion as action for everyone. I'm am specifically talking about the BSA.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

What you suggest is forcing scouting adults to show acceptance even when they disagree.

Of course, there is always "local option."

 

Here we are again.

[Eagledad]

I'm not all that concerned about the 'natural behavior' of scout leaders, whatever it is you mean by 'natural behavior', as long as the YP is not violated.

How can a person role model for someone they believe is possibly harming themselves? It would be role modeling the act of not caring.

 

Barry

[NJCubScouter]

I am saying that the BSA should not take sides at all. I get the feeling you are taking my opinion as action for everyone. I'm am specifically talking about the BSA.

I thought you were also talking about the parents of the youths who are in this situation. If not, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Edited December 28, 2016 by NJCubScouter

[Eagledad]

Of course, there is always "local option."

 

Here we are again.

Yes, but then you get in trouble with the activist who insist having a choice is the same as admitting the behavior isn't normal. There isn't a good choice for the BSA no matter what they choose to do, so I say "Do no Harm'.

 

Barry

[Eagledad]

I thought you were also talking about the parents of the youths who are in this situation. If not, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

No I wasn't thinking about that. I really don't have problems with the parents if they aren't considering becoming registered leaders because they respect the program enough to put their boys in it. We had several gay parents of scouts in our area. They gave a lot of their time and support.

 

Barry

[CalicoPenn]

I am saying that the BSA should not take sides at all. I get the feeling you are taking my opinion as action for everyone. I'm am specifically talking about the BSA.

 

 

I can agree with this - its too bad the BSA has chosen sides in this situation already. They should have punted it back to the sponsoring organization to make the decision instead.