Journey to ? 2017

[TAHAWK]

The Patrol Method is, of course, not just about leadership.

 

Encouraging use of the Patrol Method by an award system is just what we used to call "recognition" - a way to encourage desired behaviors.

 

IF that is what is intended, I raise the question of how that might be done in the context of JTE, whether I or you like JTE  or not.

 

"At least 50 Patrol meetings"   Bronze, Gold, or Silver?

[RememberSchiff]

The Patrol Method is, of course, not just about leadership.

 

Encouraging use of the Patrol Method by an award system is just what we used to call "recognition" - a way to encourage desired behaviors.

 

IF that is what is intended, I raise the question of how that might be done in the context of JTE, whether I or you like JTE  or not.

 

"At least 50 Patrol meetings"   Bronze, Gold, or Silver?

 

Patrol Method is also about teamwork - working together more can be learned, accomplished, and enjoyed. IMO the "working together", i.e. 80-100% attendance in patrol activities , is a metric for JTE.

 

Using the National Honor Patrol Award as a start, say 2 patrol meetings a month with 100% attendance is Silver. Maybe Bronze would be 2 patrol meetings a month with at least 3 scouts. Ditto with other patrol activities.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/boyscouts/pdf/512-021_WB.pdf

 

Just $0.01 as there was something in my eggnog.

[TAHAWK]

Attendance at patrol meetings and other activities !!!  

[Stosh]

Attendance is not measured in the troop method for JTE, why all of a sudden is it critical for the patrol method?  I fail to see the correlation.

 

The "Journey to Excellence" = bronze  is we make an effort for the program to show we aren't just totally goofing off.

 

Gold = we did a bang up job and the adults were very helpful in directing, guiding, encouraging, nagging and hassling us out of complacency.

 

Silver = we actually made the journey by ourselves.

 

The patrol method is the means to develop leadership.  The discussion focuses around management and organizational needs, i.e. 6 - 8 boys per group (patrol), one is the designated spokesperson for the group (PL) and put in a second for him in case he's not around (APL).  Get a flag, make up a yell, etc. and one has measurable management goals that one can actually take account for.

 

But then someone mentions teamwork is necessary otherwise PL does all the work and everyone else just sits around and complains about things not getting done, like supper.  So then organization expands to QM, Scribe, Bugler, Grubmaster, ActivityMaster, etc. those things that GBB mentions in his training syllabus.  Everyone has a job.......

 

So where's the teamwork?  Well, when everyone becomes a true leader within the operation of the patrol it all fits together.

 

6:00 am, the Bugler is the leader

6:15 am, the GrubMaster is the leader with assistant leadership from the QM who gets the kitchen set up for the meal.

7:00 am, the Chaplain's Aid is the leader

7:45 am, the QM is the leader and orchestrates the stowage of gear from the kitchen.

8:00 am, the ActivityMaster is the leader, he has the schedule for the day's activity. 

8:15 am, the PL/APL lead the boys in the activity.

11:30 am, the GrubMaster takes over leadership once more and gets the meal going

etc.

 

At one point or another everyone in the patrol needs to take their shot at leading the group......it's known as teamwork.

 

With that being said, other than leadership, what's the purpose of the patrol method.

 

Everything else can be done without the patrol method in place.  We see troops doing it all the time, but they are pretty much adult run, troop method.  Boys work their way through the process and get their Eagle, age out or drop out along the way.

 

I'd rather try and measure leadership than simply set management goals.

[TAHAWK]

Stosh, the Patrol Method is not promoted by JTE, or so I argue.  If you believe otherwise, let's hear it.

 

We are blue skying it here.  What could be measured that fits the Patrol Method?

 

The Patrol method is said to be the basis of Boy Scouting, including the much underutilized patrol program.  Good program is reflected in good attendance.  Attendance is one way to see is there is good - or at least popular - patrol program going on.

 

What's your suggestion for how to measure "good" patrol program other than boys "voting with their feet," as BP suggested?

 

 

 

With that being said, other than leadership, what's the purpose of the patrol method.

 

Really?  With your experience you can't see anything else going on?   How about character development and citizenship training - the patrol as an experiment in democracy as Bill has it?  How about the value of a small group of friends in making Scouting attractive to boys as BP and Bill have it?  How about patrol-level program planning resulting in program more boy-centered?  Heck, you know all this.  You are trying too hard to argue.

 

And what do you think the Leadership Development Method is about?  That would be leadership development.

Edited December 25, 2016 by TAHAWK

[sst3rd]

Stosh,

 

    Once again you have given us a logical breakdown of the patrol method as it pertains to leadership and teamwork. Your example is clear and makes perfect sense. And then you mentioned elsewhere about your "bummer" process and how it challenges the patrol as a team. I just don't know how much more of this I can take.  

 

 

Merry Christmas all,

sst3rd

[qwazse]

JTE is supposed to help guide scouters going forward with concrete examples of what we all are and are not looking for. Let's talk carrots and sticks please. By way of example, let's try this:

 

+1 for each SPL elected by the boys in the troop, or each PL elected by the boys in his patrol.

-50 for each SPL appointed by any other means.

+1 for every other troop PoR assigned by SPL.

-50 for every PoR assigned by any other means (including troop-wide elections)

 

...

[TAHAWK]

BSA does not seem to be into sticks beyond the consequences of failing to meet YPT certification, and BSA will decide what's measured in JTE.

 

In a more disciplined age in my council as a boy, the "stick" was that your troop's number was not called in the council assembly during Scout Week if your Neighborhood Commissioner had failed to certify that your troop was following the Patrol Method as laid out in the PLHB 1950 ed.  So your troop's flag bearer was not called forward by the Council Scribe to have the beige ribbon for that year that said "PATROL" draped over the tip of your troop's flag.  When a number was skipped a hum of whispers would go around the Santa Ana College Stadium.  The skipped troop's personnel would be seen examining the state of the polish on their shoes.  (Repeat offenders among Scouters might defiantly seek eye contact with other unit's Scouters.)  I recall being relieved that Troop 43 was always called forward (Called first, since we were the oldest troop in the council - to the frustration of Troop 1, the second-oldest troop.)

 

When I suggested such a process to the then-current SE here a few years ago, he seemed shocked: "That could be seen as pressure."

 

I conclude that we are limited to recognizing units for doing what they are supposed to do -- and it will be hard to even get that done.

[qwazse]

BSA does not seem to be into sticks beyond the consequences of failing to meet YPT certification, and BSA will decide what's measured in JTE.

 ...

I conclude that we are limited to recognizing units for doing what they are supposed to do -- and it will be hard to even get that done.

Positive reinforcement without reward is not better than negative without teeth.

 

Next example:

Rank-sum (1 for scout to 8 for eage) of current patrol members + rank sum of last year's patrol graduates - last year's rank sum.

[Stosh]

If one were to look closely at my formula for measuring the Patrol Method in the unit it is easy to see all I did is break down the troop activities into individual patrol activities and that the 300' principle is ingrained into the program at the unit level.  National breaks everything down to the 1) Council, 2) District, 3) Troop levels and all I did was take the JTE to the 4) Patrol level.  50 meetings a year means the "troop" meets as a consortium of patrols not as a troop.  The service projects don't need to be troop decided issues, let the patrols take some ownership, Decisions made on the troop level can just as easily and with more ownership happen at a patrol level, thereby emphasizing the individuality of the patrols.  At Camporees, we talk about Troop 55 in one place, Troop 27 in another and yet why can't the Silver Fox from Troop 7 be in one place and the Ravens from Troop 7 somewhere else where they can't be sharing the troop trailer and cooking as one big group just because it's convenient for the adults?

 

We do nothing to translate JTE onto the patrol level.  For me that would be a good start.  It's easier to always talk about the patrol method but that's just about it....just lip service.

[MattR]

The idea of adding a 4th level, the patrol, is good. Grade each patrol and the troop score is based on that.

 

The patrol method seems to hinge on whether the scouts look out for each other. I just don't know how to score that. Asking the patrols to come up with their own calendars seems to be the default but if they don't much care about the others, or just don't have much enthusiasm on their own, their calendars will be junk and then bad things happen. Anything that would help with this would be worth a lot. It doesn't need to be JTE-like.

[ScouterCC87]

If a Patrol only has 6 members, do this still qualify for this National Honor Patrol Award? 

Requirement #8 says they have to have 8 members in the patrol. 

Patrols can consist of 5-8 members, right?

[RememberSchiff]

@ScouterCC87 welcome to scouter.com. Please take time to acquaint yourself with rules and policies of scouter.com

 https://www.scouter.com/forum/13-forum-support-announcements/

 

[qwazse]

@ScouterCC87 welcome to the forums, the requirement gives you options:

Quote

Have eight members in the patrol or experience an increase in patrol membership.

(Emphasis mine.)

Did this patrol start out as 5 scouts? If it has done all of those other requirements for national honor patrol, and it added a scout in the process, then the requirement is met. If not, they need to recruit one more member. To earn it again, they will have to recruit another member, but then they'll be 8 and all they have to do is maintain membership and complete the other requirements in the next quarter.