BoR Tests ... Boy Balks

[Stosh]

I see a bit of "leadership" floating in the last two posts.  @@qwazse sees the boy's self improvement and organizational skills as an improvement in leadership, whereas @@SSScout sees the boy's efforts as a way of improving the world around him, i.e. his patrol, etc.

 

One of the "leadership" lessons that always goes along with my teaching of scout skills is why the boys is learning the skill in the first place.  Is it for his own edification or it is so he's prepared to use that skill to help others. 

 

Our BOR's have become too focused on knowing the personal skill of the scout and not on what that skill can do for others around him in his exercising of leadership.  Because of this I see why the boys tend to end up seeing their Eagle as a personal accomplishment rather than a rank signifying a level of leadership to be employed in the world around them.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Stosh

[fred johnson]

Follow-up: I laid out the various options to the scout in writing, and suggested he think kindly toward any adult who means him well.

 

He opted to maintain his primary membership with the troop and master and demonstrate his skills, documentation, etc ... to the board. He now has Life rank.

 

I'm glad the scout worked through the problem situation and overcame it.  It's just sad he was wronged and put in the bad situation.  Credit to him for overcoming it.  BORs are never about demonstrating skills beyond the skill to talk to adults.  

My fear is that he was wronged.  What will he do now when he is on the other end of the BOR?  Will he lead the BOR as he experienced it or as documented in policies and procedures.

[Eagledad]

I'm glad the scout worked through the problem situation and overcame it.  It's just sad he was wronged and put in the bad situation.  Credit to him for overcoming it.

Credit to him for overcoming it? Hmm, he sets up a BOR to tell them they were wrong and then walks out! That's not overcoming, that's a tantrum.

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but knowing qwazse's scout leading skills, I feel he gets credit for direction the scout is taking. The scout obviously has a good head on his shoulders, but even the best of us need guidance when our emotions try to take control.

 

Barry

[fred johnson]

Credit to him for overcoming it? Hmm, he sets up a BOR to tell them they were wrong and then walks out! That's not overcoming, that's a tantrum.

 

Your wording reads more into the situation than wasn't written.  Plus, it's hard to tell what really happened.  Even Qwazye is 3rd person away from the BOR.  

 

Now the scout may or may not have handled himself properly.  Plus, I think it takes time to learn how to behave and respond when you have been wronged.  

 

In the end, the scout rose up and decided progress was better than fighting a battle.  I just hope he treats scouts better when he's an adult.

[Stosh]

If someone is in your yard, sets up a tent in your front yard and builds a fire and starts eating his supper, and you point out that he is trespassing, it doesn't mean you are having a tantrum, it means you are speaking of an infraction occurring which needs to be corrected. 

 

Maybe it could be clearer if we pointed out that if over 18, it means one is exercising due process and if under 18, it's just a tantrum.  Nope, I'm 100% with this boy and as long as he doesn't go into a road rage fit, he handled it in a mature manner. 

[NJCubScouter]

Sounds to me like a good result all around.  The Scout is now looking at things in a calm, rational, productive manner.  That result was achieved not by anyone yelling or screaming or digging in their heels, but by quasze presenting the options in a calm, rational and productive manner.  You treated him like an adult, and he reacted like an adult, and maybe a BOR member or two acted more like an adult as well.  Amazing how that works.

[MattR]

+1 for qwazse. He helped a young man learn from his mistakes and from the mistakes of others -- a useful life skill. End of story.

[TAHAWK]

"You'll never be Eagle" sounds like a tantrum.  So who do we hold to the higher standard, a child or an "adult."

 

I sit on appeal board.  Worse happens - regularly.  But it gets fixed -- as best we can.  But we can't "unring the bell."

[qwazse]

Setting the record straight ...

 

The boy bent the ears of his fellow scouts this week as well (so I learned). They were as important an influence as I was.

 

This is one BoR in five so far. I don't think the boy will consider this habit of testing as one to take up as an adult committee member. It's not in his character. I hope we soon have a little more time to reflect on it.

 

The hit-the-ground-running leadership that I'm expecting from venturers is not organizational skills. (They have a long way to go on those lines.) I'm looking for them to love one another enough to make things happen for the good of the group.

 

Think of scout skills as a form of fellowship. You tie knots with your mates, build a gadget together, prep for a campout, build the fire that others want to gather around, etc ... that generates camaraderie around which one might practice leadership. PoRs and service projects attempt to codify some of that fellowship for the sake of leadership development.

 

I'm not gonna come down so hard on adult leaders who mean well. Being blind-sided brings out some bad stuff. That's okay. I am concerned that there will be that able-bodied scout who gets tested one too many times and will grow to avoid advancement (or scouting in general) because they think the BoR is petty.

[Eagledad]

"You'll never be Eagle" sounds like a tantrum.  So who do we hold to the higher standard, a child or an "adult."

 

Same standard, different approaches. Sometimes adults have a bad day or just act out of ignorance. Sometimes they let their egos too far. We approach them by pointing out what is expected compared to what just happened.

 

As a Scoutmaster, I would say my time was spent 50/50 working with adults to scouts. My goal for scouts is building character. My goal for adults is setting a good example of the law and oath in front of the scouts. I'm not trying to build character in the adults, just set guidelines of their behavior.

 

Sometimes the adults are incapable of living up to my expectations in front of the scouts, so those adults were generally moved away from the scouts. I wouldn't say I have high standards, some adults just have low habits of behavior.

 

In a situation like this, my first priority is working with the scout to see and understand his behavior toward the other people. Then I would have the discussion with the adults to discuss their expectations of procedures. 

 

Barry

[fred johnson]

I'm not gonna come down so hard on adult leaders who mean well.

Yeah, I can understand.

 

Being blind-sided brings out some bad stuff. That's okay.

Fully agree. It's less acceptable and more understandable. More along the lines of we learn from our mistakes. It's hard to learn how to behave or respond until you have been in the situation.

 

I am concerned that there will be that able-bodied scout who gets tested one too many times and will grow to avoid advancement (or scouting in general) because they think the BoR is petty.

This is absolutely my number one concern. I've seen it happen multiple times.

[Stosh]

I don't think the scouts will view the BOR as petty, but I'm sure that once the respect for the Board is gone, so is the boy.  A Board can undo years worth of work in just one night of being stupid, uniformed, or just plain mean.

[NJCubScouter]

I don't think the scouts will view the BOR as petty, but I'm sure that once the respect for the Board is gone, so is the boy.  A Board can undo years worth of work in just one night of being stupid, uniformed, or just plain mean.

 

Oh, I don't know, sometimes I am uniformed on nights when we are doing BOR's.  However, I am rarely accused (at least in a BOR) of being uninformed.

 

Sorry about that; I almost never point out typos, and I've made my fair share myself, but I couldn't resist on that one.  

[Stosh]

[Eagledad]

I don't understand this fear of scouts loosing respect from one challenging experience. We are scout leaders. We have the power to change and influence young minds. People screw up, especially adults. It's how we react to the screw ups that influences those around us. 

 

That being said, I believe humilty is the most powerful reaction one could observe from others. In fact, I also believe observations of humility are becoming rarer in today's culture. If the youth don't see humility in their role models, they are less likely to express it in their own lives.

 

Barry